Author Topic: Issues upon release, that come back to haunt you, like a 5F ... (Read 2978 times)

sgt_stewart · « **on:** October 14, 2011, 10:41:05 »

Interestingly after 15 years absence from the Reserves I wanted to enroll again. I hopped on the roller coaster that everyone has to ride before becoming a member of the CF. I had an interesting call from one the Career Counsellors at CFRC regarding my release from the P/RES in '96. When I decided to stop parading due to work commitments, I turned in my kit, signed all the necessary paperwork, asked if there were any issues such as NES. The release clerk told me everything was fine. Fast forward to last month. CFRC requests a VFS and they are told by Ottawa that my file was still at my previous unit and that I wasn't released. The next thing I find out is that I was released under a 5F. What is happening??? Basically I was told that I cannot get back into the P/RES because of my release status. The Career Counsellor then told me that I can get the 5F reversed with a letter from the unit explaining the circumstances and with the blessing of the CDS. Has this happened to anyone? Has a 5F decision been reversed?

dapaterson · « **Reply #1 on:** October 14, 2011, 10:58:32 »

Yes. 5Fs can be and have been changed.

Jim Seggie · « **Reply #2 on:** October 14, 2011, 10:59:24 »

Yes I've seen 5Fs reversed. One young soldier , IMO, was given a 5f release when another troop blatantly bladed him. The kid was released 5f, but I went to Niner and plead his case. It worked. Release item changed to 4c. The young man went on to have a short but distinguished time in the CF.

the 48th regulator · « **Reply #3 on:** October 14, 2011, 11:10:37 »

http://www.ombudsman.forces.gc.ca/

If someone else has dropped the ball, then the onus should be for the unit to reverse the 5F.

dileas

tess

JSR OP · « **Reply #4 on:** October 14, 2011, 12:00:09 »

I had a 5F release changed to a 4C, but it took about 2 years beginning with a call to my MP. A Ministerial Inquiry was in the works, but it was decided that it was not necessary. eventually the Militia district (In know, I'm dating myself) said it would not change my release, but would let me back in. Some General ordered them to change it from 5F to 4C, and it was done.

That was some time ago, '97 it started and I was back in the Reserves by spring '99. I'll see if I can find any of the paperwork I have on it for more details.

sgt_stewart · « **Reply #5 on:** October 14, 2011, 15:49:03 »

I actually have an inquiry into the ombudsman. It will be interesting to see how fast things are going to get done. As it stands CFRC requested a copy of my pers file, which should take about 2 months to get to CFRC. I wonder how many people the request will go through?

the 48th regulator · « **Reply #6 on:** October 14, 2011, 18:25:25 »

Quote from: sgt_stewart on October 14, 2011, 15:49:03

I actually have an inquiry into the ombudsman. It will be interesting to see how fast things are going to get done. As it stands CFRC requested a copy of my pers file, which should take about 2 months to get to CFRC. I wonder how many people the request will go through?

Roger that,

Good luck. One thing I hate is when someone tries to do the right thing, only to find out later that things were screwed up, by another person's hand.

Keep us posted, as JSR OP, and you have shown this does happen, and it would be good to have the process explained for people in future who come across this.

dileas

tess

sgt_stewart · « **Reply #7 on:** October 18, 2011, 09:56:25 »

Just a quick update. It looks like the ball was dropped a few times with my release. The DCO and Chief Clerk are working with the CO of the regiment to get this resolved. The thing that really scares me is that there is such a poor job being done when reservists are released. It's ironic that the machine relies so heavily on communication that it can't get this one right. A friend of mine reached his mandatory retirement age and indicated that he wanted to work with the Cadets upon release and he released outright. Now he can't because he would have to re-enrol and he is too old. Once I get back in I hope to address this issue so former soldiers like myself can serve once again without navigating that proverbial minefield.

dapaterson · « **Reply #8 on:** October 18, 2011, 10:12:50 »

Quality of Reserve admin is wildly variable across the country. There are policies and procedures to follow; some do it better than others. Some units don't put much effort into admin, unfortuatnely, and that results in situations like this one. Ultimately, it's a command responasibiltiy to care for one's soldiers; that includes doing their admin adequately.

(As I recall, back when I tracked some such things, the quality of admin (based on looking at the number of pers per CBG with no parading for 12+ months as a proportion of those who paraded) decreased as you crossed the country from east to west, with 38 CBG in Winnipeg being the only exception to that rule.

Jim Seggie · « **Reply #9 on:** October 18, 2011, 10:17:01 »

Quote from: dapaterson on October 18, 2011, 10:12:50

(As I recall, back when I tracked some such things, the quality of admin (based on looking at the number of pers per CBG with no parading for 12+ months as a proportion of those who paraded) decreased as you crossed the country from east to west, with 38 CBG in Winnipeg being the only exception to that rule.

You are saying 38 CBG is doing OK? It can use improvement.....but every facet of the CF could use that.

dapaterson · « **Reply #10 on:** October 18, 2011, 10:22:19 »

Quote from: Jim Seggie on October 18, 2011, 10:17:01

You are saying 38 CBG is doing OK? It can use improvement.....but every facet of the CF could use that.

This was about 5 years ago, but in terms of managing releases, 38 CBG was (I think) #2 in the country for keeping down the number of long lingering folks on the books who were awaiting release.

(There's also a direct relationship between number of pending releases and being a highland unit - highlanders tend to have significantly mroe folks on the books who have not paraded for a year or more. Anecdotally, it's due to units trying to chase down the kilts and regimental accoutrements and not wanting to release someoen until that's done.)

Jim Seggie · « **Reply #11 on:** October 18, 2011, 10:26:44 »

Quote from: dapaterson on October 18, 2011, 10:22:19

This was about 5 years ago, but in terms of managing releases, 38 CBG was (I think) #2 in the country for keeping down the number of long lingering folks on the books who were awaiting release.

(There's also a direct relationship between number of pending releases and being a highland unit - highlanders tend to have significantly mroe folks on the books who have not paraded for a year or more. Anecdotally, it's due to units trying to chase down the kilts and regimental accoutrements and not wanting to release someoen until that's done.)

True....that kit is expensive and its all NPF if I remember correctly.

sgt_stewart · « **Reply #12 on:** October 18, 2011, 20:12:08 »

My issue is that it was never about kit. It was about the process and how it broke down. When you follow the chain of command and report directly to the BSM/CSM/SSM that your are unable to parade and want to get out, you expect results. It seems that there is a bigger problem of consistency. The culture needs to change around the release procedure to make it fair, reasonable and transparent.

dapaterson · « **Reply #13 on:** October 18, 2011, 20:53:07 »

That is a unit command problem, not a CF administration problem.

sgt_stewart · « **Reply #14 on:** October 19, 2011, 19:54:05 »

I understand that it is on an individual unit basis, but you have too admit that the issue is well known and that the cavalier attitude towards releases done incorrectly, does exist. It seems that the process is always harder for those who have served, to go through the system again to become reengaged.

PJGary · « **Reply #15 on:** October 20, 2011, 05:15:19 »

Quote from: sgt_stewart on October 19, 2011, 19:54:05

I understand that it is on an individual unit basis, but you have too admit that the issue is well known and that the cavalier attitude towards releases done incorrectly, does exist. It seems that the process is always harder for those who have served, to go through the system again to become reengaged.

From what I've seen, this is relative to the time the member was out. I have known one person who got out instead of VOT'ing because they wanted a different trade, then flew through the recruiting process like nobody's business because everything was still current. They actually ended up on their new QL3 sooner than if they had gone through the hoops of an OT. However, I also know people who are well past IPC's and being due for their CD, but because they were out for so long everything is fuddled. The release process itself is (sometimes unfortunately) only as hard as one's CoC makes it. We were actually talking at work today about how stupid it seems that so many new people can't join up because of numbers, and the CF has so many people (Reg and Res) who are just bogging down the system while their release process drags and drags.

My

EDITED: For grammar

Jim Seggie · « **Reply #16 on:** October 20, 2011, 09:07:43 »

We had one pumper of fecal matter put in his release papers - it took less than a week and he was gone. We let him go 4c as we could not 5f him - not enough paperwork done on the pumper.

sgt_stewart · « **Reply #17 on:** November 12, 2011, 17:48:16 »

Update,

The ombudsman got back in a matter of days. They were very helpful as I explained by dilemma. The fact that my former unit is supporting my enrolment once again is very encouraging. The ombudsman stays its great news that the support level is very high on my end, which should result in a favourable outcome. Next step is to receive my pers file physically from Ottawa. Once the release item is in the hands of the recruiter, the letter the unit has prepared for me will go to CDS for approval.

jasonf6 · « **Reply #18 on:** November 12, 2011, 18:10:35 »

Quote from: sgt_stewart on November 12, 2011, 17:48:16

Update,

The ombudsman got back in a matter of days. They were very helpful as I explained by dilemma. The fact that my former unit is supporting my enrolment once again is very encouraging. The ombudsman stays its great news that the support level is very high on my end, which should result in a favourable outcome. Next step is to receive my pers file physically from Ottawa. Once the release item is in the hands of the recruiter, the letter the unit has prepared for me will go to CDS for approval.

Ya, I can't see Walt not giving approval.

sgt_stewart · « **Reply #19 on:** November 26, 2011, 09:55:16 »

The Recruiting Centre got my file back from Ottawa in seven weeks. Pretty good time I guess. I spoke with another officer and he said i did have a 5F on my file, but because the unit has written a letter saying it was a mistake on their part they are holding a position for me. Because it is a reserve application the 5F can be reversed at a local brigade as opposed to DND and the CDS. So it looks like another month or so before I can get things finished up.

News:

Author Topic: Issues upon release, that come back to haunt you, like a 5F ... (Read 2978 times)