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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« on: November 09, 2011, 13:28:39 »
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the OIttawa Citizen is, I think a pretty fair assessment of Liberal Party of Canada leader Bob Rae:

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Tandt+loud+aches/5676946/story.html
Quote
Den Tandt: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
 
By Michael Den Tandt, Postmedia News

November 8, 2011

OTTAWA — Bob Rae won't say whether he wants to be prime minister. But he does want that, with every fibre of his being.

And here's the curious magic that charisma, gravitas and a dash of hubris can effect: Listening to Rae speak, it's hard not to believe, at least for a while, that he might pull it off. Certainly he thinks he can. The pat responses about heeding party rules calling for him to stand aside in 2013? Let's quietly set those aside. Rae is crafting a come-from-behind run for the country's top job. And he's going about it in clever, methodical fashion.


The Ottawa Citizen

On the face of it, Rae's situation could not be more grim. Last May 2 the once-mighty Liberal Party of Canada, led by Michael Ignatieff, was reduced to a pitiful 34 seats. It was a humiliation on par with John Turner's drubbing at the hands of Brian Mulroney in 1984. Rae has the unenviable task of sorting through the ruins looking for salvageable beams.

As he himself acknowledges: "If you look at the results of the last election, we pretty well lost everywhere. It would be hard to say we we've . . . succeeded in defending any particular bastion in the last little while. We've been receding. That can't continue."

In the past nine months, Rae told an online audience Sunday, Conservatives have raised $18 million to the Liberals' $8 million. With both corporate and government "sugar daddies" out of the frame, Liberals must rely on themselves, Rae says: "We need thousands of shoulders to the wheel."

It's a nice image. But what can it yield, if Grit supporters are an increasingly grizzled group of primarily urban, retired, degreed professionals and civil servants — while the Conservatives and New Democrats carve up Main Street between them? Polls suggest this is precisely what has happened, and continues to happen.

One knock against Rae has been that, though he loves to speak and is very good at it, he's not a natural listener. The same might be said of his party. After May 2, just as they'd done to former leader Stephane Dion after his loss in 2008, senior Liberals dragged Ignatieff out behind the barn and put him down. It was quick and relatively painless.

The implication? If the leader had only been more effective, dodged the dastardly Harper attack ads or returned fire more effectively, they could've been contenders.

A possibility many Liberals still fail to acknowledge, is that large numbers of Canadians simply don't agree with them any more, on some core issues. The long-gun registry is one, certainly in rural and small-town Canada. Borrowing billions to fund new federal programs, as Ignatieff promised to do in the last campaign, is another.

For years, Grit politicians have bemoaned the loss of Canada's international reputation. Oddly, that message doesn't seem to have caught on internationally, where Canada is, in fact, widely respected — particularly by our closest allies the United States and Britain, whose troops fought alongside Canadians in Afghanistan. The world likes our banking system too, apparently. Canadians have the Internet, and can read the foreign news.

Liberals have tried hard for half a decade to turn the plight of Omar Khadr into a rallying cry for human rights. They have a point: Khadr was just 15, a child by UN convention, at the time of his arrest. But do ordinary Canadians empathize enough with an enemy combatant, whatever his age, to make this anything but a loser, politically? The answer is no.

Rae appears to understand the branding problem, which Ignatieff did not. He also knows the prize is the solid centre — with a leftward tilt on social issues, and a rightward one on economics and geopolitics. On Iran he's a hawk. On marijuana he's a dove. On taxes he muses about lowering, not raising. "It's productivity that speaks to our prosperity — we have to look at everything."

If it holds, it could be the germination of a Liberal shift back to the moderate centre-right, where the party had its success in the '90s. Pragmatic Liberals would cheer. Rae's biggest problem, should he manage to stick around until 2015, will be Ontarians' memories of the recession of the early '90s. That's a big problem. For now though, it doesn't appear to be spoiling his fun. "I enjoy it," he says of his role as scrapper and underdog. "I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't enjoy it."

Fair enough. Aside from all that, however, would Bob Rae like to be PM? Honestly? Don't ask. He won't say.

mdentandt@postmedia.com

© Copyright (c) Postmedia News


I heard Mr. Rae on the radio today, talking socially left, fiscally right sense.
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Offline Good2Golf

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 14:45:45 »
...I heard Mr. Rae on the radio today, talking socially left, fiscally right sense.

Ironically, what some of us might liken to be not too far from past PC platforms.

The NDP CoG is vulnernerable now and Rae might just be the one to recover the Liberal's losses to the left and exploit potential NDP self-collapse when/if the Quebec honeymoon sours.


Regards
G2G

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 19:06:15 »
Rae's big strike is that he needs Ontario to win.

He'll be dead and buried before, he, our former Premier is forgiven or forgotten by most in this province.

People here still spit when they say his name.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 20:12:49 »
While it is quite easy to believe Mr Rae will flout the rules and attempt to become the "once and future" leader after being the "interim" leader, it is even easier to believe that various factions in the Liberal Party will be waiting in the corridors, behind curtains and in the kitchen with knives out for Mr Rae.

The infighting that surfaces from time to time is still going on, if only because the internal conditions which promoted such infighting have not changed. I suspect that after the Liberal convention bloodbath, the party will be full of bitter people divided against themselves. The NDP may or may not be a contender at that point in time but Steven Harper's CPC will roll the Liberals over post hast.

If the LPC is going to be a contender in 2019 (or even around then), they will have to do a lot more of the core work of defining what, exactly, they stand for, and define it in a positive manner that induces people to vote "for" them on their own merits rather than as an "against the others" vote. Realistically, I don't see this happening anyway, not only because they won't do it but because they can't; the Progressive project is unravelling and the legal, fiscal and moral arguments for Progressivism in any form lie in ruins. The NDP and Greens are entrenched in the ruins (like Russian soldiers in Stalingrad) while the "Classical Liberal" values of liberty, property rights and Rule of Law are (imperfectly) championed by the CPC, and even more voracious small "c" conservative parties on the political Right. There is literally no place for the Liberals to go.

So Bob Rae may go down in history as the man who's ambitions destroyed the Liberal Party through infighting, while history passed it by.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2011, 07:50:58 »
And more speculation, by arch anti-Conservative Lawrence Martin, reproduced under the fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/lawrence-martin/and-the-next-liberal-leader-is-bob-rae/article2235985/
Quote
And the next Liberal leader is ... Bob Rae?

LAWRENCE MARTIN
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Published Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2011

Some time ago, I jettisoned my crystal ball owing to its serial malfunctioning. But recently, while I was reading a book on table-rapper Mackenzie King, it reappeared in all its non-glory. Here’s what it said:

For lack of a better candidate, aging Bob Rae will become permanent leader of the Liberal Party and lead it back to respectability, though not victory. Mark Carney, the Bank of Canada governor celebrated on a magazine cover last week as “The Canadian Hired to Save the World,” will take over the Rae reins after the next election.

Benefiting from the most starlit international reputation since Lester Pearson, Mr. Carney, who recently ruffled Tory feathers in declaring the Occupy movement as being “entirely constructive,” will be elected prime minister in 2019.


By that time, the Conservatives will have been in power for a 13-year stretch, the longest since the days of John A. Macdonald. They will have moved the country so far to the right that Don Cherry will be its official mascot.

At the moment, the exceptional story is the ascendancy of Mr. Rae. Funny thing. The interim Grit leader who vowed not to seek the permanent leadership just a few months ago is already making big strides toward claiming the prize.

Everything is falling into place for him. Rae ally Sheila Copps has become the leading candidate for the party presidency. Ms. Copps has already stated that she thinks Mr. Rae should drop his pledge and run for the permanent leadership.

Fast off the mark, Mr. Rae has introduced a sweeping reform and modernization plan for the party. He is impressing many with his experience, his savvy, his command. Unlike the previous two leaders, he does not need on-the-job training. Though his Liberals are a third-party rump, it is Mr. Rae who comes across as the official opposition leader in the Commons. While trying hard, NDP interim leader Nycole Turmel lacks the experience and English-language capability to be effective in the role. Mr. Rae overshadows her completely.

He got a big break recently when Justin Trudeau declared he would not be a candidate for the leadership. Bearing the Trudeau name and youthful charisma, he might have been the one for the party to rally around. As it stands, unless Mr. Trudeau changes his mind, there is no big-name challenger to Mr. Rae and the party will be hesitant, after the experience with Michael Ignatieff, to reach outside for a newcomer.

By the time of the next election, Mr. Rae will be 67. That’s hardly apt for a party in need of revitalization and generational change. But his “Roadmap to Renewal” reform plan is designed to overcome this perception. The plan includes the introduction of an American-style primary system to elect the leader and the opening up of party memberships to anyone, free of charge. The idea is to create a whole new grassroots breed of Liberal.

As he spelled out in a speech last week, Mr. Rae is out to reclaim the lost centre. While sharp in its critique of the government, the speech was bromide-plagued in its attempt to define a new Liberal way. Reclaiming the middle will not be easy. Although Stephen Harper is brandishing his ideological stripes in some policy domains, in the area that counts most, the economy, he is showing himself to be adroitly capable of moderation. Finance Minister Jim Flaherty’s decision last week to put back his deficit-elimination target was an example.

Nor will it be easy for the Grits to make gains on the second-place New Democrats once that party has selected its new leader. It has a strong list of candidates to draw from.

But there is no doubting Mr. Rae’s impressive start. Given his age and checkered history, he is not an ideal choice for the leadership. But until someone of the stature of a Mark Carney comes along, there is no ideal choice. It’s Bob Rae and he’s probably a big enough improvement on previous leaders to save the Liberal Party.


Leave aside the Mark Carney wishful thinking: Martin is committing the standard Liberal sin of looking for a celebrity to lead the party without the need for the drudgery of renewal. Even if, and it's a HUGE IF, Mr. Carney has any political ambitions he will note the Ignatieff experience and shake his (wise) head from side to side, indicating "No." Politics is, now, a profession and some serving Conservative and NDP members indicate that it might be one your enter fresh from university.

   
The Hon. Andrew Scheer, (CPC) Speaker of the House of Commons                                               Laurin Liu (NDP) was elected while still studying at McGill
has never worked at anything except partisan politics:
first as a staffer, then as an MP


Scheer and Liu are the face of the future of politics as a profession.

A factor Martin ignores is that the Liberals have an unwritten, but very strong, alternating rule: leaders are, alternatively, from English and French Canada - people like Martin Cochon and Denis Coderre think they have a right to be leader.

But the next Liberal leader, and the one or even two after that matter to us all. One of therm is far, far more likely to be Prime Minister of Canada and, therefore, to set policy and tone for our country, than is any member of the NDP.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2011, 12:08:14 »
And more on the trials and tribulations of the LPC:

http://www.nationalpost.com/todays-paper/Liberals%2Breflect%2Bmiss%2Bpoint/5705242/story.html

Quote
Liberals reflect, but miss the point

The Liberals admitted they had no defence against the assaults the Tories launched against Stéphane Dion and Michael Ignatieff.
   
Matt Gurney, National Post · Nov. 14, 2011 | Last Updated: Nov. 14, 2011 2:08 AM ET

The good news is that the Liberal Party of Canada is finally giving serious thought to what's wrong with their organization. For too long, the Liberal approach to party rebuilding was, "Lose election, replace leader, campaign on past glories of party, repeat." Almost anything would be better than that, and the party's report, Building a Modern Liberal Party, is a step in the right direction. The bad news is that, even in this lengthy document, there are signs of the same old Liberal sense of entitlement that was the party's real undoing.

The grandiose regard the party has long been held in by its troops is still much in evidence. Last Wednesday, my friend Chris Selley was at Bob Rae's speech in Toronto, and told of a ripple of surprise and mild discomfort that went through the crowd when MP Scott Brison called the last election's result a "drubbing."

What else could it be called? So long as acknowledging the sad state of the Liberals remains taboo, the party can't move forward.

The document does concede that the Liberal defeat last May was "devastating," and contains page after page of thoughtful, largely accurate analysis of the current Canadian political landscape (if filtered through a partisan Liberal lens). But when the document discusses its political opposition, the worst habits of Grits start to shine through the introspection.

Take their long analysis of the Conservatives, and why they continue to dominate. The Liberals correctly conclude that the Tories have been better organized and better prepared over the last few elections - in both the "air war" (politics through media) and "ground war" (legions of volunteers and staff ready to knock doors and press flesh), the Liberals agree that they lost the last election as soon as it began. They admit that the party had no effective defence against the pre-emptive negative assaults the Tories launched against both Stéphane Dion and Michael Ignatieff. And they are right that the Tories have been successful at having broad appeal to the political centre while using narrow wedge issues (wheat board, gun registry, etc) to retain the support of their base.

But buried amid all this accurate analysis is the Liberal conviction that the Tories have somehow tricked the Canadian voter. The old Grit stand by, the hidden agenda, has been given a 21st-century update - now the Liberals accuse the Conservatives of a stealth agenda to remake Canada.

But remake it from what, and into what? Canada is not a theoretical construct, frozen in amber since the Liberals lost power in 2006. It will change whether the Liberals want it to, even if they happen to be out of power. It's as easy to argue that the Conservatives are benefiting from natural changes in Canadian society as it is to imply they are secretly orchestrating them.

But the Liberals don't see it that way. They are palpably uncomfortable being out of power, like a proud car owner forced by circumstance to let someone else take the wheel. As far as they're concerned, the Tories have used their "stealth agenda" and "message discipline" to send "the right coded messages" to their voting base, which is driven by "underlying extremism."

The end result of all this plotting by the right-wing extremists? The Liberals believe that the Tories have "fooled" enough voters to take power.

The NDP are portrayed as being similarly devious - the Liberals feel they are "misleading Canadians" about their true socialist nature (the Liberals also feel the NDP's current caucus, composed of strong-central government types and soft Quebec nationalists, is probably unsustainable, and they could easily be right about that). But the Liberals are as dismissive of the NDP's move to the centre as they are the Tories' - it's merely a trick that the voters fell for. That's the only possible explanation for last May's result.

But there other explanations, and ones the Liberals can't afford to ignore. What the Liberals have never wanted to admit is that, even if the Tories have a hidden extreme base and even if the NDP is misleading Canadians, it doesn't matter. What matters is that the Liberals get out there and convince Canadians that they are, in fact, the party of the centre, rather than fretting about the other parties eating their centrist lunch. Simply telling the voters that they've been had isn't going to cut the mustard. It hasn't so far.

Fixing the Liberal party's internal mechanisms, updating their voting registration and fundraising strategies, ridding themselves of the old leadership rivalries - are things that need to happen. The Liberals are right to address those deficiencies. But if they want to become a force in Canadian politics again, it must be by convincing the public that the Liberals are able to best represent the centre, not by simply declaring any other party an interloper when they reach for the middle.

mgurney@nationalpost.com
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Danjanou

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2011, 16:22:43 »
Rae's big strike is that he needs Ontario to win.

He'll be dead and buried before, he, our former Premier is forgiven or forgotten by most in this province.

People here still spit when they say his name.

I hope you're right but I'm wondering. Considering the attention span of our sound bite media pablum fed average Ontario Voter is about the same as a cat with Alzheimer's he may get it. Look what we just did provincially. ::)
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2011, 21:36:26 »
I hope you're right but I'm wondering. Considering the attention span of our sound bite media pablum fed average Ontario Voter is about the same as a cat with Alzheimer's he may get it. Look what we just did provincially. ::)

The same Union people that let McGuinty back in haven't forgiven Rae for the Raeday vacations and the stab in the back his Dipper gov't doled out to it's grass root supporters.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." 2007 winning entry, Texas A&M University - most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2011, 09:30:47 »
True and they're usually the minority that get off their fat arse and actually vote. either way I'm keeping my Passport updated and the property tax on the that foreign beach front property paid up.  8)
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Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2011, 11:14:10 »
Here, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the National Post, are some interesting observations on the Liberal Party of Canada's main problem: it's continued idolization of Pierre Trudeau, Canada's worst ever prime minister:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/12/30/kelly-mcparland-liberals-need-less-trudeau-more-mackenzie-king/
Quote
Kelly McParland: Liberals need less Trudeau, more Mackenzie King

Kelly McParland

Dec 30, 2011

I was shopping before Christmas and came across a new book on Pierre Trudeau: Trudeau Transformed: The Shaping of a Statesman 1944-1965 by Max and Monique Nemni. This is the second volume on Trudeau by the Nemnis, presumably with more  to come, since Volume Two only takes us to the cusp of his parliamentary career.

Nearby the Nemnis book was another book on Trudeau, and near that, a book on Margaret Trudeau.  The Nemni biography is the second recent assessment of Trudeau’s life: a well-received two-volume official account was produced by the historian and academic John English, beginning in 2006. English wrote an earlier volume on Trudeau, The Hidden Pierre Trudeau, published in 2004. In addition there have been books by Nino Ricci, Ron Graham and Ramsay Cook, just in the past five years. There is a whole library of works from earlier years, not to mention those by Trudeau himself.

There is another new book on a Canadian prime minister in the stores this season, Allan Levine’s King: William Lyon Mackenzie King, a Life Guided by the Hand of Destiny. It’s the first full biography of the country’s longest-serving Prime Minister in 30 years. King doesn’t get a lot of attention from Canadian historians. The other main work of the past decade was “Friends and Lovers“, a look at his odd (to say the least) relationship with (preferably married) women.

Which made me wonder: Why are we so obsessed with Pierre Trudeau, and so little interested in King, who re-assembled the Liberal party from scratch beginning in 1919 and, when he finally stepped down in 1948, handed over the most potent and successful political machine the country has ever seen? Don’t tell me it’s because Trudeau was charismatic and King was dull and gray. Mackenzie King was by far the weirdest man ever to run this country, and he ran it for 22 years.  What’s more, his utter nuttiness is there for all to see, in 30,000 pages of the diary he kept for 50 years, and which is available free online .

Most Canadians first became aware of King’s secret world in 1976, in C.P. Stacey’s A Very Double Life. Stacey told us about the nightly sessions in the little room on the third floor of Laurier House, where King chatted with his long dead mother, sister and brother, plus a host of friends, relatives and historic figures who regularly trooped through, offering advice and support. He was big on seances and table rapping; messages hidden in clouds, tea leaves and shaving cream; secret signals sent via dreams, visions and daytime revelations. He may or may no have tramped the street looking for prostitutes to rescue, and venerated images of his mother the way pilgrims react to images of the Virgin Mary at Lourdes.

Yet Stacey barely scraped the surface. And even in his enjoyable biography, Levine can only add so much more.  He notes that the King papers in Ottawa fill an area equal to three football fields. Much of the diary has only become easily available recently. Yet we’re satisfied with a new look at King every 30 years or so while constantly inspecting and re-inspecting the minutia of Trudeau’s life in search of some new revelation to chew over.

It’s not that Trudeau was the better politician, or the more important figure. King conceived and created the self-sustaining electoral juggernaut that current party elders would kill to have back. King brought Quebec into the Liberal fold and kept it there, ensuring majority after majority from 1935 through to 1957. He began the transition from British supplicant to independent Canadian nation that Pearson and Trudeau completed. He did it while balancing the books, keeping the country united and alienating very few. With the exception of Alberta, which was in thrall to Social Credit, the Liberal party was viable throughout the West into the 1950s.

King also established the image of the Liberals as the party of social welfare, though he was horrified of debt and believed strongly in individual responsibility. It was Trudeau who twisted that out of shape, setting off a borrowing binge that amassed debt and shackled a generation to the eternal repayment plan. Trudeau amplified the breach with the West that no Liberal since has put much effort into healing and which has largely eliminated it from the country’s most vibrant region.  But perhaps worst of all, it was Trudeau who personified and validated the superiority complex the party is still struggling to rid itself of, the belief in its absolute right to rule, the sense that Liberalism is the only authentic manifestation of the Canadian character. Every Liberal leader since has been infected to some degree by the assumption of the inevitability of Liberal success, and its manifest right to expect it.  Peter C. Newman, in his new book on Michael Ignatieff and the Liberals’ decline, writes: “If politics is a fever of the blood, arrogance is the Liberals genetic code.”

As they scratch through the ashes of what they once had, looking for a few flecks of hope, Liberals might be better to quit fantasizing about a new Trudeau and skip farther back into their own past. Mackenzie King, for all his weirdness, understood the Canadian character and played to it, oriented his party to satisfy it, and won long-term allegiance to its values rather than to himself. When Trudeau left he took whatever personal magic he had with him, and it turned out there wasn’t a lot else left behind.  Charisma is not a workable political platform, and during his 15 years the party became Trudeau, and expected the country to do so as well, or take a hike.

When King retired he left the country in sound financial shape, vibrant, peaceful and sure of itself. If not perfectly at harmony, it was at least in a period of truce over French-English relations. His party was strong and united, and easily won two more majorities after he departed.  Trudeau left the country deep in debt and saddled with an enormous deficit. The West was angry and alienated, Quebec in the throes of its separatist fervour. The party was crushed at the next election and would spend nine years out of power, and still struggles with other Trudeau-era legacies it has yet to overcome.

We don’t need more Trudeau. As Liberals debate how to revive their party, they would do well to ignore their most charismatic leader and head straight to the dull gray man who gave them the position of strength they have since squandered.

National Post


I repeat: I supported the Liberals in the 1960s, when I could first vote. I thought knew that the St Laurent/Pearson visions of Canada, at home and abroad, was better than the Drew/Diefenbaker one. I ceased supporting the Liberals when Mike Pearson bought Marchand, Pelleteier and Trudeau into the party. I also knew that none of them was good for Canada and I disliked Trudeau intensely; I found him a petite, petty, puffed up, poltroon and, at best, a pseudo-intellectual who forswore serious academic work to be a "star" in Québec - talk about being a big fish in a small pond; he made his reputation writing anti-Duplessis articles in magazines with circulation lists of dozens, not hundreds. Given an opposable thumb, my Aunt Florence's pet cat could write credible anti-Duplessis articles.

I would be willing to support the Liberal again IF they elected a John Manley Liberal who would repudiate Trudeau and all his works - none of which, including the (unnecessary) Charter, did anything but harm to Canada - and restore the St Laurent vision of Canada.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2011, 11:20:24 »
.... I would be willing to support the Liberal again IF they elected a John Manley Liberal who would repudiate Trudeau and all his works - none of which, including the (unnecessary) Charter, did anything but harm to Canada - and restore the St Laurent vision of Canada.
I'm guessing that bit in red'll never happen, at least in this generation - and with a fils in the caucus, the changeover isn't going to be happening soon.  Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaybe with enough time in the political wilderness.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2011, 12:51:45 »
John Manley is the only person who could bring the Liberals FULLY back to relevance. 

Bill Graham could probably do the job to 75-80% of how John Manley could do it.  Unfortunately for the Liberals, however, it seems their options are either "le petit dauphin" of Bob "Ontario still remembers you" Rae.

Regards
G2G

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2011, 14:07:45 »
John Manley is the only person who could bring the Liberals FULLY back to relevance. 

Bill Graham could probably do the job to 75-80% of how John Manley could do it.  Unfortunately for the Liberals, however, it seems their options are either "le petit dauphin" of Bob "Ontario still remembers you" Rae.

Regards
G2G


I disagree. I think the Liberals have a couple of good potential leaders; leaders who can, probably, unseat Harper's successor, e.g.:

          
Scott Brison                                                              Dominic LeBlanc                                                         Judy Sgro
Good choice - smart fellow                                         Best choice, overall                                                     Could manage in a pinch, has one obvious plus
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2011, 14:12:06 »
and Dominic LeBlanc is tightly tied into the old boy's network like none of the others......
REMEMBER SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2011, 15:58:29 »
and Dominic LeBlanc is tightly tied into the old boy's network like none of the others......

He is indeed but he is, also, a shrewd and able politician. The other Franco contenders, Bélanger , Coderre, Cochon, Garneau and Trudeau are either damaged good or lightweights. (I'm not counting  Kevin Lamoureux (Winnipeg North) as either a Franco or a contender.)

I suspect Brison and LeBlanc actually frighten the Tories; unlike Rae or any of the other Liberal leader wannbes.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2011, 16:04:13 »
Unfortunately, I suspect that whom ever the Libs choose will be chosen with the intent in mind that he/she is only a temporary step until "le petit dauphin" is ready. They are so fixated on Trudeau and offspring, they see no other.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2011, 16:41:24 »
The Liberals are so blinded by the light of the next shining star that they can't see that they have one food in mid air over the chasm of obscurity.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2011, 17:00:07 »
At the risk of repeating myself, we had better hope they survive and prosper because, sooner or later, probably around 2023, we are going throw the Tory rascals out; they will have gotten too stale and too corrupt to stay in power. The NDP cannot grow into a responsible, worthy of government, political party without, first, destroying itself and its core beliefs. The only acceptable alternative to a Conservative government is a Liberal one - absent a new centre/centre-right party emerging.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2011, 17:01:25 »
Awhhh....come on E.R......give Elizabeth a chance huh?  ;D
REMEMBER SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2011, 20:22:13 »
Mr. Campbell, if the Liberals truly want to recover from their near auto-immolation, Brison is the one to do it.  Leblanc is smart...lawyer smart (Harvard)...but he's still a lawyer and political scientist.  Brison's involvement in economics, particularly with the US (once it recovers from its current state of affairs) will be the CoG of Federal governmental stewardship.  Liberals will have to look past the cliff of legacy BS that they currently seemed Hell bent on steering towards, and will have to figure out how to regain the center that they foolishly gave up to the Conservatives while they witlessly dabbled farther to the left.  Unfortunately for them, they realized too late in the game, that the flakiness of the far left was something that neither a) they could grab hold of, nor b) be anything of worth.  All the while, the new Conservatives expanded the centrist support from the old PC's base as well as the Blue Liberals who were driven away from the LPC with the leftist "dabbling" and ended up not needing even a hint of Quebec to grab the majority.  If the LPC doesn't sort itself out soon, the CPC will convince another 4-7% of the popular vote that they're not so bad, and that will seal the Lib's fate for quite a while.

 :2c:

Regards
G2G

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2011, 20:34:05 »
G2G:  With the majority of the 10% growth of the House occuring in Tory friendy territories, the Toris have no need to seek out any growth.

Which may well be their downfall.  An election in 2015 with another majority; and it's suddenly 2019 with a party that's largely unchanged from 2011.  That sort of stagnation can be deadly - particularly since The Rt Hon Mr Harper will be only 60 and still spoiling for a fight.

On further reflection, Stephen Harper may well be the Tories Achilles heel; he's doing precious little to groom successors.  That can result in a party with no viable leaders once he retires, or with open warfare in the caucus (See Martin, Paul Jr).
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2011, 22:45:42 »
I agree with G2G re: Brison being the qualitatively better choice, but the Liberals have a tradition of alternating French/English leaders - and Ignatieff and Rae are filling the English slot. Of the available Francos LeBlanc is the only choice if the Liberals do not want to commit ritual suicide.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2011, 12:29:58 »
Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.

Rae won’t rule out bid for permanent Liberal leadership

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/rae-wont-rule-out-bid-for-permanent-liberal-leadership/article2287550/

Quote
Interim Liberal Leader Bob Rae says he’ll stay at the helm of his party until it selects his successor – he just won’t say whether that successor could be him.

Banned from running under current party rules, Mr. Rae won’t be pinned down on whether he thinks a change in those rules is in order.

“Now you’re asking what President [Franklin] Roosevelt used to call iffy questions,” said Mr. Rae at a news conference Friday. “And I don’t answer iffy questions.”

“The party made a decision with respect to the choice of the interim leader,” he said. “They have made rules, and I’ve said all the way through that I’d live by those rules.”

Mr. Rae, at an end-of-year news conference in downtown Toronto, attacked the Conservatives on the economy. He said Stephen Harper’s government is out to protect the interests of the rich at the expense of the working class.

Payroll taxes, including employment-insurance premiums, are due to rise Jan. 1, at the same time that Tories are mulling a cut in corporate taxes, he said. Such measures will set back Canada’s economic recovery and take “money right out of the pockets of low-income people,” he added.

Mr. Rae was appointed interim Liberal leader this spring after Michael Ignatieff led the party to a third-place finish for the first time in its modern history. The Tories garnered a majority government as the NDP took over the Official Opposition.

“The lesson is you pick yourself up, you dust yourself off and you start all over again,” Mr. Rae said. “The key word is resilience.”

Last summer Mr. Rae took over the party on the condition that he not use his heightened profile to seek the job permanently. Yet some Liberals feel he has done such a good job filling the role that they are suggesting that rules change before the party holds a leadership convention slated for 2013.

Having never shut the door on a leadership run, Mr. Rae, a former Ontario Premier, certainly sounds comfortable in his job.

“We’re an effective opposition party. I’ve been in a lot of three-party contests before. I did that in another life, in another movie, and we can do it again,” Mr. Rae said Friday.

“It’s just a matter of being relevant, being focused, having something to say and saying it a way people will remember.”

He said the Liberals will be stumping in Quebec in early 2012 to pick up votes that now appear to be up for grabs. “I’m going to be spending quite a bit of time there in the new year and doing what I can to have an impact.”
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2011, 12:41:22 »
With Rae at the helm Ont and the Prairies are all but locked up for the Torries. The Liberals will have to continue to campaign from the left if they hope to pick up any seats in Quebec.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2011, 12:57:04 »
Rae won’t rule out bid for permanent Liberal leadership

Mr. Rae, at an end-of-year news conference in downtown Toronto, attacked the Conservatives on the economy. He said Stephen Harper’s government is out to protect the interests of the rich at the expense of the working class.
Not much progress on shaking his NDP mantra.....
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2011, 13:04:41 »
As the Harper government continues to not be the band of evil trolls depicted by their opposition, the Liberals may be forced to actually have a real, believable and economically viable vision for this country rather than simply pandering to special interest groups.  It sure would be nice to have some real debate from strong if different views. 
Unfortunately, what i'm hearing from Rae so far is more of the same make the rich pay crap that did such wonders for Ontario.  What ever happened to the fiscally responsible Liberals???

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2011, 13:13:07 »
What ever happened to the fiscally responsible Liberals???

 :rofl:   When was that?
REMEMBER SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2011, 14:46:56 »
:rofl:   When was that?

Mackenzie King (1921 to 1948) and Louis St. Laurent (1948-1957). I'm pretty sure Lester Pearson didn't run a ruinous deficit either, although my Google Fu isn't helping today...

These boots are too big for Bob Rae to fill...
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2011, 15:06:10 »
I can't recall the size or indeed if there were any deficits in the Pearson years. However he started the development of the welfare state and I do recall all sorts of tax hikes including a surcharge called a "social development tax." Pearson also began the process of buying "labour peace" with large settlements.

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2011, 15:31:20 »
So, let's step back in time a tad and compare then to the article above.


Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act.

http://www.cp24.com/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20110519/110519_rae_leadership?hub=CP24Home

Bob Rae will not run for Liberal leadership

Quote
OTTAWA — Bob Rae is shelving his long-term leadership ambitions in order to become interim leader of the devastated federal Liberal party.
 
The Toronto MP wrote his caucus colleagues Thursday to advise he's willing to let his name stand for the position of interim leader.
 
And Rae acknowledged that means he'll have to give up thoughts of one day running to become the permanent successor to Michael Ignatieff, who resigned after leading the once-mighty party to a historic defeat in the May 2 election.
 
"I shall abide by any rules about the interim leadership, agreed to by the caucus and by the (the party's) board (of directors)," he says in the letter.
 
"I have made it a watchword of my time in public life to practise the politics of unity and principled compromise. I shall continue to do so."
 
The party's directors have the authority to appoint an interim leader, based on the recommendation of the parliamentary caucus which appears to overwhelmingly favour Rae.
 
The board served notice last week that the interim leader must be bilingual and must promise not to seek the permanent leadership or engage in any discussions about a possible merger with the NDP.
 
There remains some dissension over precluding the interim leader from seeking the permanent post. But party president Alf Apps, who's been consulting with caucus, riding presidents and other Liberals, has said there appears to be a broad consensus in favour of imposing the condition.
 
On Friday, the board is expected to issue final rules for the interim leadership and for delaying the vote for a permanent leader, most likely until the fall of 2012.
 
Should Rae be chosen and perform well as interim leader, it's conceivable Liberal party brass could eventually choose to relax the prohibition on running for the permanent leadership.
 
But sources close to Rae say he's genuinely relinquishing his long-term ambitions in order to focus on the immediate and urgent task of rebuilding the party.
Rae, a one-time NDP premier of Ontario, flatly told The Canadian Press: "I'm not planning to run for the long-term leadership."
Many Liberals believe the party will have to slowly rebuild its base through the next two elections before it can hope to be in position to contend for power again. At 62, Rae suggested he's simply too long in the tooth to take on that challenge.
 
"I think it's just being realistic. I mean the fact is we're down to 19 per cent (of the popular vote), we're down to 34 seats," he said in an interview.
 
A permanent leader has "got to be prepared to commit to a decade and it's a decade of work. I think that's obviously a factor in my decision, as it would be in anybody's decision."
 
In his letter to caucus members, Rae laid down a condition of his own. He said he's only interested in being interim leader if the vote for permanent leader is put off for 18 to 24 months.
 
Under the party's constitution, the leadership vote should be held in October. However, the party's board is proposing to hold a special "virtual" convention on June 18, at which delegates will be asked to amend the constitution to allow the leadership vote to be postponed for up to two years.
 
Apps has said a broad consensus has emerged in favour of choosing a permanent successor to Ignatieff in the fall of 2012.
 
Rae said the party must put aside its seemingly perpetual leadership politics if it is to recover from the May 2 thrashing.
 
"At some point, people are going to have to say, 'Is this rebuild serious?' Because if it is, then this exclusive focus on leadership politics has got to come to an end for a while."
 
Until now, Montreal MP Marc Garneau was the only Liberal to express interest in the interim leadership. Given Rae's decision, Garneau said he wants to consult with his supporters before determining whether he should withdraw from the race.
 
"Obviously, when someone like Bob Rae comes into the picture, that is pause for thought," Garneau told CBC-TV.
 
In his letter to caucus colleagues, Rae wrote: "After the worst election defeat in our history, it is vital that we come together as a party and engage directly with Canadians about what matters to them.
 
"The pursuit of social justice and a sustainable prosperity in a united Canada has to remain our focus. We cannot afford to get caught up in internal wrangling."
 
Rae said he's a "glass-half-full person" who believes the centrist party can come back from near oblivion, provided all Liberals pull together.
 
"There is a strong need for a party that is not caught in the trap of ideological excess. We need to use the talents of every member of the Liberal team right across the country."

So, say one thing while planning on making it happen another way? He didn't outright lie, I suppose, technically. He is allowed, I suppose, to change his mind. However, I wonder if this isn't just another version of the shell game the liberals have been playing on the Canadian public for so many years. The Chretian Red Book has numerous cases of "What I said, is not what I meant" and 'No, no, you didn't understand properly what you read' and "I will get rid of the GST" (great untruthful mileage on that one). Is he so sure that the public's political attention span is so small that they wouldn't remember back to May? People are distrustful enough of what our politicians say, this won't help things change that notion or help increase his chances of tumbling Harper.

I can almost guarantee it'll get worked into counter ads put out by the CPC.

In a way, I hope he does clench the brass ring. It'll probably help give the CPC another four year run at no cost to themselves.

My  :2c:
 


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Offline Jim Seggie

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2011, 17:05:40 »
Not much progress on shaking his NDP mantra.....

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2012, 13:17:09 »
More, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, about Bob Rae, would be Liberal leader:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/jeffrey-simpson/the-last-man-standing-will-be-bob-rae/article2302152/
Quote
The last man standing will be … Bob Rae

JEFFREY SIMPSON

From Saturday's Globe and Mail
Published Saturday, Jan. 14, 2012

In the next federal election, perhaps in 2015, Bob Rae will have been gone from being the NDP premier of Ontario for two decades. By that time, a large swath of the Canadian voting public, especially those under 40, will remember nothing of those tumultuous times. Outside Ontario, chances are that voters would know nothing about those years, just as Ontarians wouldn’t have clear opinions about Mike Harcourt’s years as premier of B.C. or Don Getty’s as premier of Alberta.

Of course, the Harper Conservatives will try to remind people of Mr. Rae’s time as premier and paint it with the blackest of colours. That’s how the Conservatives do politics: Tear down opposition leaders. The Conservative campaign against Mr. Rae has already begun. It will continue through the next election because, barring unexpected developments, Mr. Rae will lead the Liberals in that campaign.

Mr. Rae is the “interim” Liberal leader. In theory, the leadership race is supposed to start late next winter; in practice, it has begun with only one candidate, Mr. Rae. There is, frankly, no one else. If there were, Mr. Rae could leave.

Liberals can dream of Justin Trudeau, except he has ruled out a leadership bid. They can think of New Brunswick MP Dominic LeBlanc, who might be ready for prime time some years from now. They can ponder Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty. But the more they ponder, the more they’ll realize that the last man standing will be Bob Rae.

Twice, the Liberal Party passed over Mr. Rae – once for Stéphane Dion, once for Michael Ignatieff. Mr. Rae was the most experienced, the best speaker, the more natural politician – yet, he lost twice.

Yes, his time as NDP premier counted against him with some Liberals, either because they couldn’t forget his lacerating attacks on their party before he switched sides, or because they feared those years would be used against him to telling effect.

There were other, deeper reasons. Mr. Rae never gave the Liberals a clear enough narrative why he wanted to be leader and where he wanted to go. He offered the party himself and his talents, and they weren’t enough.

When dealing with his time as NDP premier, Mr. Rae can’t find the right narrative even now. Being a proud man, he defends those years, talking correctly about the difficulties of the recession Ontario faced, the challenges he overcame, the progress he made – although the generalized historical view is that of a buffeted and unsuccessful government. Ontarians apparently thought so. They decisively dumped the NDP at the first opportunity.

Having poured his reflections into books and speeches, Mr. Rae left the NDP. Here’s where the narrative failed. In appealing to Liberals for their votes, he never explained why he and the Liberal Party could achieve objectives (other than taking power) that the NDP couldn’t.

Mr. Rae never told Canadians why liberalism trumped social democracy, or why the Liberals reflected better than the NDP what he came to believe in. Now, the party desperately needs that narrative to bring at least some of those former Liberals back.

Mr. Rae can seek the leadership again as a way of personal vindication: At his age, and with his innate love of politics, it’s hard to imagine him preferring a law firm to leading the Liberal Party. Politics was injected into his blood early – first at university, then as a young NDP MP. It still courses in his veins. He’s a man of many interests beyond family, but one trumps all: politics.

Beleaguered Liberals could have fallen into factional infighting, as shattered parties often do. Under Mr. Rae, harmony has reigned in caucus, fundraising has picked up, media exposure has been won, and Mr. Rae has earned the highest badge of partisan honour: personal attacks from the Conservatives.

He pledged when becoming “interim” leader not to seek the job thereafter. A way will be found around that inconvenient, but not insuperable, impediment.


Simpson makes an uncharacteristically serious political misjudgement: it doesn't matter all that much what the "under 30s" think - they don't vote. The "over 50s" vote in disproportionately large numbers and they will either remember Rae or the Conservative "attack" campaign, which will be vicious, will remind them of why he is a poor choice for Canada.

I have met Bob Rae on a few occasions, I rather like him, as a person; he is thoughtful, well spoken and, generally, likable - but he will be none of those things to most Canadian voters when the Tory attack machine gets through with him.

I'll repeat what I've said elsewhere: we all have an interest in the Liberal Party of Canada doing a good job of rebuilding: they, not the NDP, are the "government in waiting" we want and need. The Liberals need to pick a good leader for 2015 ~ maybe Rae can serve for 2012 and 2013, but someone else will be needed to lead the party back to official opposition status.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2012, 14:25:18 »
If Paul Martin and the 'Blue Liberals' are backing Sheila Copps like it appeared on this morning's news, the Liberals will have a better chance challenging the CPC in '15, than they would with Rae.

When the Tory machine kicks into high gear, no doubt the record of all time for proroguement will be exposed as Bob Rae as Ontario Premier.


Regards
G2G

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2012, 15:01:02 »
If Paul Martin and the 'Blue Liberals' are backing Sheila Copps like it appeared on this morning's news, the Liberals will have a better chance challenging the CPC in '15, than they would with Rae.

When the Tory machine kicks into high gear, no doubt the record of all time for proroguement will be exposed as Bob Rae as Ontario Premier.


Regards
G2G


The contest this weekend, at this convention, is for Party President, the organizational manager of the Liberal Party of Canada, and Ms. Copps is one of the front-runners.

Rae is likely to contest for Party Leader, the leader of the party in parliament and prime minister in waiting, when that brave soul is, eventually elected.

I'm not sure Ms. Copps will make life as easy for Mr. Rae as outgoing Party President Alf Apps (not a close relation, as far as I know, to the great Syl Apps) is doing/has done.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2012, 19:59:25 »
More, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail, about Bob Rae, would be Liberal leader:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/jeffrey-simpson/the-last-man-standing-will-be-bob-rae/article2302152/

Simpson makes an uncharacteristically serious political misjudgement: it doesn't matter all that much what the "under 30s" think - they don't vote. The "over 50s" vote in disproportionately large numbers and they will either remember Rae or the Conservative "attack" campaign, which will be vicious, will remind them of why he is a poor choice for Canada.
...


I've mentioned before that I follow a regular poll done by CARP - a seniors' advocacy organization; the latest result are:

Conservative       45.0 %
Liberal                21.5 %
NDP                    13.3 %
Green Party          3.4 %
Bloc Quebecois      0 %
OTHER                  0.5 %
UNDECIDED       16.4 %

The poll is not scientific and it is skewed towards Men (67.4% of respondents) living in Ontario (61.2% of respondents) but it matters because, statistically, people over ago 50 vote in disproportionately high numbers so national, scientific polls are usually wrong because they count the preferences of young Canadians, under 30s, as having equal "value" as those of older Canadians. While their opinions have equal merit their "voting intentions" do not predict outcomes because those young people do not vote. Thus, if the current polls show e.g. The Conservatives at 35% and the NDP at 25% we ought to guess that the real, voting booth, outcome is something like Conservatives 37.5% and NDP 20% because the young voters are, disproportionately pro-NDP but their unwillingness to "get out and vote" will cost the NDP and the disproportionate voting of the seniors will benefit the Tories.
 
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2012, 22:42:07 »
If Paul Martin and the 'Blue Liberals' are backing Sheila Copps like it appeared on this morning's news, the Liberals will have a better chance challenging the CPC in '15, than they would with Rae.

When the Tory machine kicks into high gear, no doubt the record of all time for proroguement will be exposed as Bob Rae as Ontario Premier.


Regards
G2G

In that case, i'm cheering for Rae!  Go Rae!!!   ;D

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2012, 23:01:42 »
A report from the Liberal convention. I would be interested to discover what exactly the DNC operatives told the Liberal Party (and of course will any Canadian news organization outside of Sun TV even report the LPC has invited American political operatives to instruct them on how to win elections):

http://www.atory01.com/blog/2012/1/14/based-on-today-the-conservatives-will-have-a-long-reign.html

Quote
Based on today, the Conservatives will have a long reign
 Saturday, January 14, 2012 at 7:26PM

Earlier today I said I thought I was in a time warp with the present Liberal convention reminding me of some of our PC Party ones from the 1990s. As the sessions wrapped up today, I haven’t changed my position. Even a few Liberals thought I made a good point.

Today they had some very informative sessions. One that stands out for me was led by two of Obama’s operatives who played a large role in both rebuilding the Democratic Party and in getting Obama elected. A lot of cutting edge stuff, well thought out and explained. If Liberals thought this was the magic bullet that would lead them back to government, it probably won’t. It was clear that even using their tools, any rebuilding would take years, certainly not months. It wasn’t a quick fix for an ailing party.

At the same time what they suggested implementing requires a lot of money in the initial stages, something the Grits are quite short of right now. It also requires a large volunteer base, I would suggest even the Tories would have a tough time implementing the measures they suggested. But for a political junkie such as myself, it was fascinating to see how they put it all together against strong opposition from the party establishment.

Speaking of which, we are down to the wire in the race for the presidency of the party. Sheila Copps versus Mike Crawley has been an interesting fight to watch. Some Liberals I spoke to thought it was Copps’ to lose and feel she did with her press conference. Others think the old guard of the party will rally to her in the end. I tend to think Copps will still pull it off, but wouldn’t it be something if the membership rallies around Crawley in an attempt to force change on the party?

In the end though does it really matter? The public couldn’t care less about who is the President of the Liberal Party. The only people they see are the leader and the MPs. They judge their performance and look for a party that can deliver on their promises and which can bring forward realistic policies that mean something to Canadians. The Liberals are a long way from doing that.

With merger with the NDP being the forbidden topic at this convention I expect that my feeling of being in a time warp will continue. The Liberals will still prefer to talk about how they are different to the NDP as opposed to how they are similar.

Back in 2002 when Harper first sat down with Joe Clark to talk about a potential merger, as a party researcher, I made a chart (later updated in 2003) of all of our PC and Reform/Canadian Alliance election platforms and matched them up word for word. I did the same for the party constitutions. We agreed on something like 75-80% of the items. I wonder if anyone has done this for the Liberal and NDP platforms. Just how different are they?

Liberals will come out of this convention invigorated. They will have policy conventions that will convince themselves that they have found the way into voters’ hearts. They will wait for the NDP to collapse, they will wait for the NDP to fall into 3rd place in the next election and maybe the one after that too, and even the one after that. All of that sounds all too familiar for me, but it will keep the Conservatives in power.

Ipolitics.ca has excellent coverage of Convention 2012. Be sure to check out their coverage at

http://www.ipolitics.ca/liberalconvention2012/
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2012, 00:40:19 »
They can spin it any way they want. Hold their conventions and end up anointing the most likely suspect.

Ontario knows Sheila Copps as a shill shrieking harpy bent on making people become liberals, whether they want to be or not.

Ontario remembers Bob Rae as the Premier that killed Ontario, created Rae Days and chased industry out of the Province for ten years. He's also playing word games with his Interim Leader\ no Premier bullshit. People can see his power play as plain as day and aren't willing to give him a government, while he's playing the same con artist games he used so effectively when he was elected Premier.

Both need Ontario to win. Whether it's the convention or the government.

Neither has Ontario, and won't get it anytime soon.

Once burnt, twice shy.

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2012, 09:10:16 »
Quote
Once burnt, twice shy.

That does not include Dalton McGuinty though.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2012, 09:40:15 »
That was more a slap to Mr. Hudak's sorry miserable campaign than anything Mr. McGuinty earned.............................
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2012, 09:49:40 »
That was more a slap to Mr. Hudak's sorry miserable campaign than anything Mr. McGuinty earned.............................


I agree; the religious and social conservatives, the so called "hard right," whose candidate Mr. Hudak is, have a lot for which they must to answer. Given an acceptable, moderate, Tory leader we might have a sensible, responsible government in Toronto right now ... but, no, we get McGuinty because the Conservatives put purity before power.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2012, 10:32:31 »
That was more a slap to Mr. Hudak's sorry miserable campaign than anything Mr. McGuinty earned.............................

Concur.  Hudak's campaign was a 'goat rodeo'.  The phrase "snapping defeat out of the jaws of victory," comes to mind.

McGuinty has never generated anywhere near as much intense hatred as Rae did.  The early to mid-90's were not just part of the "decade of darkness" for the CF....Ontarians were also wondering how bad things could get.


Regards
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2012, 11:14:47 »
That was more a slap to Mr. Hudak's sorry miserable campaign than anything Mr. McGuinty earned.............................

...and now, unfortunately, McGuinty gets a few years to remind us of why he should never have been re-ellected.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2012, 13:02:16 »
If Paul Martin and the 'Blue Liberals' are backing Sheila Copps like it appeared on this morning's news, the Liberals will have a better chance challenging the CPC in '15, than they would with Rae.

When the Tory machine kicks into high gear, no doubt the record of all time for proroguement will be exposed as Bob Rae as Ontario Premier.


Regards
G2G


Looks like the "Blue Liberals" lost; CBC is reporting that Crawley, not Copps, is the nes Party President.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2012, 13:11:13 »
Ohhhh.....that's gotta stick in her craw...... ;D
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2012, 13:31:43 »
I'm not sure what it (Crawley as Party President) means for the Liberal Party, which, I repeat, I wish well ... well enough to displace the Dippers, anyway.

The Liberals need to renew and rebuild; the convention just ending today does not look, to me, as having been a big step in that direction.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2012, 13:59:27 »
Crawley looks to be well versed in the backroom functions of the party, whereas Copps' experience is in the storefront operations....not sure how one translates into the other, but they have entirely different focuses and formats, with the same goal.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2012, 10:20:26 »
Yet more on Bob Rae and on the (totally without foundation) idea, if it can be called that, that Mark Carney might want to lead the Liberal Party, assuming that he even is a Liberal, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

Quote
Bob Rae and beyond: potential contenders for the top Liberal job

JANE TABER

OTTAWA— Globe and Mail Update
Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2012

With the convention behind them and life for Liberals becoming a little more clear, there is growing speculation Bob Rae will not be the only contender for the party’s throne.

Rumours are there could be at least half a dozen Liberals who will take a run at the leadership including MPs Dominic LeBlanc, David McGuinty and Geoff Regan. Other names being floated are Calgary Mayor Naheed Nenshi, Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson and even Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, the brother of the Liberal MP who gave a well-received keynote address to convention delegates.

As for candidates from Quebec, it’s believed former Chrétien cabinet minister Martin Cauchon could have some interest. He was very visible at the convention, where he hosted a hospitality suite. In addition, there is some buzz around Quebec Justice Minister Jean-Marc Fournier, who served as a senior adviser to former leader Michael Ignatieff.

No women’s names are being seriously floated although Belinda Stronach, a former Liberal cabinet minister who took a run at the Conservative leadership against Stephen Harper, was seen schmoozing at the convention. She is always considered a possible candidate.

While no one wanted to look too ambitious at the weekend event, David McGuinty told reporters he was considering a bid. But he noted he had a lot more thinking to do.

So far, however, the media focus has been on the Interim Liberal Leader and whether he will try for the permanent job. Mr. Rae had a high profile at the convention, making a dozens of appearances and speeches, including a stirring wrap-up address to delegates in which he urged them to go back to their ridings “and multiply.”

But with the spirit of renewal and sense the party needs generational change that came from the three-day gathering – Mike Crawley’s win as president over Sheila Copps reinforced that view – there is a hope among some Liberals that Mr. Rae will not compete for the permanent job.

One senior Liberal told The Globe he is hoping “people see the wisdom of what we did” – which was to open up the party to outside “supporters” to allow for a broad-based vote for leader.

So far Mr. Rae has remained non-committal about his plans. But party officials have said he would have to step down as Interim Leader well before the final leadership vote as that post gives him a big advantage over other candidates.

And patience is beginning to wear thin. Postmedia columnist Michael Den Tandt has written a piece calling on Mr. Rae to “come clean – and say he is not a candidate for permanent leader, or say that he is. In the latter case he should set a firm date for his exit as interim leader. And he should do so now.”

All of this has to be figured out by the new party president, Mr. Crawley, and his board. Liberal officials have until Oct. 1 to set the exact date for the convention that is to take place between March and June of 2013.

But internal reticence aside, Mr. Rae might want to seriously consider a bid. EKOS pollster Frank Graves recently ran a survey on who Canadians like as political leaders and the interim Liberal chief outranked the Prime Minister, scoring a 44 per cent job-approval rating compared to Mr. Harper’s 34 per cent.

“Bob Rae is showing some surprising strength for a caretaker presiding over a party with one foot in the grave according to Peter Newman,” Mr. Graves writes, referring to Mr. Newman’s new book – When the God’s Changed – about the demise of the Liberal Party.

“With 44 per cent approval, he eclipses the Prime Minister’s rating and with only 25 per cent disapproval he is seeing some receptivity from Canadians if he should decide to throw his hat in the ring again,” the pollster observes.

And for those who think that Mr. Rae’s record as Ontario NDP premier in the 1990s, in which he governed during a recession, is an “albatross,” think again. Mr. Graves’s research finds that Mr. Rae “fares better in Ontario than in the rest of the country and he has a very regionally even distribution of approval.. By contrast, Mr. Harper receives laurels in Alberta and raspberries in Quebec.”

Dalton McGuinty, meanwhile, has a 43 per cent approval rating but Mr. Graves says his high disapproval rating of 47 per cent could pose a problem for him. And just to stir the pot, Mr. Graves threw Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney into the mix.

Some pundits, like The Globe’s Lawrence Martin, have suggested the central banker could become Liberal leader after the next election. Mr. Carney has the highest approval rating of all in Mr. Graves’s survey – 57 per cent, with only 11 per cent of Canadians disapproving of what he is doing.

The online survey of 2,005 Canadians was conducted between Dec. 14 and 21.


I think Rae would be a mistake for the Liberals ... but, hey, I'm a card carrying, paid up to the max, Conservative so who cares what I think, right?

I also suspect that Mark Carney has his sights set elsewhere: maybe the World Bank, traditionally an American job and currently held by Robert B. Zoellick, the International Monetary Fund, traditionally a European job and currently held by Christine Lagarde, or something like Goldman Sachs where the current CEO, Lloyd C. Blankfein, gets a relatively small salary (only $600K per year) but where, until the crash of 2008, stock options of tens of millions were, routinely, awarded to the most senior executives, year after year.

It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2012, 14:29:48 »
I sense that the "supporters" issue might be something that backfires, but in the long run. It looks like it allows people who are not members to vote on who the leader is. However it might just get Rae what he wants. I agree that Rae would be a mistake for the Liberals. I also agree that he's toxic to the 50+ generation of voters to whom he must appeal the most. Rae's ascension to the liberal throne is not going to bring the era of renewal the the liberals so desperately need.

That being said, if they don't make significant gains in the next election (outside Quebec), I'm sure the liberals will throw him under the bus as they've done with every leader since Mr Martin last lost. Which in a Machiavellian way might just be the long term goal.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2012, 15:09:09 »
... if they don't make significant gains in the next election (outside Quebec), I'm sure the liberals will throw him under the bus as they've done with every leader since Mr Martin last lost. Which in a Machiavellian way might just be the long term goal.


I suspect that a contender like Dominic LeBlanc might make a spirited run this time, aiming to finish a strong second without running up too much debt, knowing that

1. Rae will prevail and will lead the party into the 2015 election;

2. Rae cannot bring the Liberals to power in 2015, but he might unseat the NDP for second place; and

3. By 2017 or so he (Rae) will be far too old and "worn" and it will be time for a young, photogenic, Francophone from outside Québec to lead the party and, maybe even, to win the keys to 24 Sussex Drive in 2019.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2012, 21:18:21 »
The NCC reminds voters of Bob Rae's record: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aUF7GwzqYQ&feature=player_embedded

And you thought Mr Dithers, Stephan Dion and Micheal Ignatieff faced attack ads?
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2012, 12:44:16 »
Part 1 of 2

Here, reproduced in twi parts under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail is an interesting and somewhat flattering (even a tiny bit fawning) biography of Bob Rae, the man who might become Liberal Party leader but is destined to follow Dion and Ignatieff as leaders who did not become PM:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/the-liberals-need-a-new-leader-what-about-bob/article2318206/singlepage/#articlecontent
Quote
The Liberals need a new leader: What about Bob?

SANDRA MARTIN

From Saturday's Globe and Mail
Published Saturday, Jan. 28, 2012

In a photograph from 1968, Bob Rae sits near the end of a long conference table, with shaggy hair and tweed jacket, holding a pipe in his mouth with a stem as long as a stiletto. The Vietnam War has polarized the academic community and the university is in upheaval. Mr. Rae is 20 and a member of the newly instituted university commission on governance, a radical experiment in opening the upper echelons of the ivory tower to the lowliest members of the academy.

He has been invited there, as a rising student activist, to voice his views to Claude Bissell, then president of the University of Toronto, a man old enough to be his father – indeed, Mr. Bissell went to school with Mr. Rae's diplomat father, Saul, in the 1930s.

Four decades later, that table has turned: Mr. Rae is now 63, and his hair is snow white (although there's lots of it) and his skin is ruddy and wrinkled, and he has just presided over a Liberal Party policy convention where more than a third of the delegates are under 30. Like Mr. Rae in his youth, they have a voice (now amplified by social media) and they intend to use it. One signal was a new set of rules for choosing leaders that should put an end to old boys in backrooms deciding whom to anoint.

“The whole top-down politics is changing,” says Mr. Rae's erstwhile rival and recent ally, former Ontario Liberal premier David Peterson. “There's an Arab Spring taking over politics everywhere and you are going to have younger, media-savvy different ways of communicating. It won't just be the same old baloney you and I know from watching politics.”

You might argue that's just what the Liberals need. The party of Wilfrid Laurier and Pierre Trudeau, the one that likes to dub itself the natural governing party of Canada, is in rough shape. The last time it won a majority in the House of Commons was in 2000, when Jean Chrétien was prime minister. Since he stepped down in 2003, the Liberals have turnstiled through three leaders: Paul Martin, Stéphane Dion and Michael Ignatieff, each more improbable than the last. They didn't just lose the federal election on May 2 – they were walloped, losing their status as the Official Opposition and limping into third place behind the governing Conservatives. It was the party's worst showing in its history.

Mr. Rae is no longer the young prophet in the academic temple, the Rhodes Scholar, the NDP finance critic who toppled Joe Clark's government on a budget motion in 1979 or the surprise winner of the 1990 Ontario election, the first NDP premier ever elected east of Manitoba. He carries the burdens of what happened after that: the infamous “Rae Days,” crossing the floor from the NDP to the Liberals, and perhaps flip-flopping on his promise not to seek the party leadership again.

For now, he is caught in limbo, allowed to be interim leader so long as he doesn't admit publicly that he wants the job for real. But he also was voted parliamentarian of the year by Maclean's magazine in November, delivered three barn-burner speeches at the policy convention two weeks ago – without a Teleprompter – and has soared to 35 per cent in the approval ratings, according to an Angus Reid poll released this week.

“If the election were today, we would be begging Bob to run, because there's nobody else,” Mr. Peterson says. “He's a smarter guy than he was. He's had more experience, he's learned the game and he's battle-ready.”

The one flaw Mr. Rae can't bat away is his age. “You have to think ahead in this business,” Mr. Peterson says. “Is he the right guy to lead the party in four years' time, in the only race that matters?”

That's the rub: This could have been Mr. Rae's moment, but there isn't going to be an election any time soon. It's unlikely Prime Minister Stephen Harper will visit the Governor-General to ask for a dissolution of his parliamentary majority until 2015. Mr. Rae will be 67 by then, and probably 70 before he, or his party, could realistically expect to move into 24 Sussex. Will it be his fate to have been the right man at the wrong time?

The Liberals invited communications guru Don Tapscott to be their keynote speaker at the convention in part because of his reputation for understanding the Millennial generation. He isn't counting Mr. Rae out. “It would be reasonable to conclude that anybody of Mr. Rae's age is yesterday's man,” he says. But, in fact, Mr. Rae is one of the people “driving this vision” of the party as an engaged, open network that reaches out across all kinds of channels to build community and draw young people into a real discussion about ideas.

“The party needs a leader who understands this generation, their culture, their modus operandi, and embraces it,” Mr. Tapscott says, “and I don't care if that person is 20 or Methuselah.”

Is that the new Bob Rae? Mr. Rae certainly thinks so, although he insists he hasn't decided whether he wants to be permanent leader. Listening and patience are the biggest differences in him, he says. Being the smartest person in the room doesn't cut it any more. The key is “learning how to make sure you get people working for you who are even smarter than you, and that you aren't afraid of them. ... That's something you've got to figure out.”

And some of the younger Liberals agree: “My opinion of Bob Rae has changed since he has become interim leader,” says Ryan Barber, 31, president of the Liberal riding association in Simcoe North. “He's had 20 years to toughen up and articulate why his critics are wrong and he is right. Our last two leaders got blindsided because they were relatively inexperienced in being in a leadership role and they didn't see it coming. … I think Bob has shown in a lot of interviews that he isn't knocked off course by a tough comment or an attack. Bob's personality strikes you as the person who beats up the bully in the schoolyard.”

That may just be enough to make him leader. But is it enough to get time back on Mr. Rae's side?

The two Bobs

After the party convention, the Liberals are pumped, and nobody more so than Mr. Rae. He hits the ground running, using the lag time between the convention and the reopening of the House of Commons on Monday to cross the country visiting community colleges on a skills-and-trades tour. I catch up with him on Tuesday morning at the Centre for Hospitality & Culinary Arts at George Brown College in Toronto. Wearing a white chef's jacket and toque, he tours the various prep rooms shaking hands, asking questions.

For most of his career, there have been two Bob Raes: the public performer who comes alive in the spotlight and the socially awkward, distant guy who seems preoccupied at a dinner party. The first Mr. Rae was in full tilt at the convention, exhorting delegates to “go forth and, for heaven's sake, multiply!” But the other Mr. Rae, the distracted, self-absorbed one, seems to have vanished. At the culinary institute, he seems goofy in his outfit but genuinely interested in meeting the students and watching them knead dough, roll pretzels or fashion delicate roses to decorate wedding cakes, skills they will use to seek jobs in an economy about as tough as the one Mr. Rae faced as premier of Ontario in the 1990s.

Intrigued by a garish sculpture of three swans, including a black one floating on an inky pool of caramelized sugar, he stops for a closer look. “Could you make a loon?” he asks wistfully. This is a glimpse of a more private Rae, the son of a peripatetic diplomat's family who got his sense of home from the one-acre island that the family bought at Big Rideau Lake in the fall of 1956, where Mr. Rae has spent nearly every summer since.

“We watch the loons by day and listen to their primeval cries at night,” he wrote in his 1996 memoir, From Protest to Power. The lake is where the family spread his younger brother David's ashes after he died of complications of leukemia in 1989, and where “I know the same will be done one day for me.”

Mr. Rae was born Aug. 2, 1948, in Ottawa, the third of four children of Saul Rae and his wife, Lois. His maternal grandmother, Nell, the daughter of a Clyde shipyard draftsman, was born near Glasgow, where she met and married Willy Cohen, a tailor and the son of Jewish refugees from Lithuania. They eventually immigrated to Canada, settling first in Winnipeg and then Toronto, where the Cohens became the Raes (a circumstance Mr. Rae didn't know until he was an adult).

Nell Rae took in boarders to put food on the table, and turned her offspring into a vaudeville musical act called the Three Little Raes of Sunshine. Grace, the eldest, eventually became a Rockette at Radio City Music Hall; Jackie, the youngest, earned a Distinguished Flying Cross as a Spitfire pilot in the Second World War, and became a singer-songwriter and a producer of TV variety shows; Saul, the middle child, was the brainiest, so his mother wrangled him a scholarship to the University of Toronto.

It was there that Saul met George Ignatieff, with whom he also went on to Oxford and then into the External Affair Department in the diplomatic swirl around Lester Pearson in the 1940s and 1950s. He met and married a British, Cambridge-trained historian named Lois George and together they raised their four children in diplomatic postings in Washington, Ottawa and Geneva.

Bob Rae inherited the intellect, the fateful connection to the Ignatieff family and the love of song and dance, though he mainly keeps that last one under wraps these days.

Party man

Mr. Rae had his first brush with the Liberal Party as a student, working for Pierre Trudeau at the leadership convention in 1968 – by then, his older brother, John, was a staffer for Jean Chrétien and his sister, Jennifer, was working on Mr. Trudeau's media team. But Mr. Rae didn't think of himself as a Liberal. He sensed a smugness in the party, and he was wary of what he saw as a conservative streak in Mr. Trudeau. As he described himself in From Protest to Power, “I was a thoroughgoing democrat, whose socialism was never Marxist and always pragmatic.”There are some people, NDP stalwart Stephen Lewis among them, who think Mr. Rae persuaded himself that he was something he wasn't – a social democrat.

After university, Mr. Rae won the Rhodes Scholarship that had eluded his father and went off to Balliol College at Oxford in 1969. He flourished in the intellectual stimulation of tutors such as Isaiah Berlin, but socially he was out of place in tradition and class-ridden England.Unable to see his future, he fell into a lengthy depression.

Friends like Michael Ignatieff, who was doing a doctorate at Harvard, helped, as did extensive therapy. But he was energized by working on behalf of poor tenants in a legal-aid clinic in North London. Fixing things – institutions, people, political parties – became a lifelong preoccupation: It led to his return to Canada, a law degree, a practice as a labour lawyer and his decision to run for the NDP in a federal by-election in 1978, when Ed Broadbent was leader of the party and Mr. Trudeau was prime minister.

Within the year, Mr. Trudeau had called and lost an election, Progressive Conservative leader Joe Clark had become prime minister, and Mr. Broadbent had appointed the eager, media-savvy Mr. Rae – the only NDPer elected in Toronto – as finance critic. From this perch, he successfully presented an amendment to Mr. Clark's budget bill and brought down the government. It was Dec. 12, 1979. Mr. Rae was 31.

Another election, in February, 1980, saw Mr. Trudeau emerge from the shadows to win a majority government. Mr. Rae held on to his seat. Five days later, he married Arlene Perley, his political soulmate and now the mother of his three grown daughters. Meanwhile, the Ontario NDP came calling.

Nurtured by Donald C. Macdonald over the decades, the party had flourished under Stephen Lewis in the early 1970s, forming the official opposition in 1975. Now, though, it was floundering and Michael Cassidy had decided to step down as leader after the party's disappointing results in the 1981 election. Who better to come to the fore than Mr. Rae, the Tory-government slayer and repository of quick barbs in Question Period?

A private dinner was arranged with Mr. Rae, Mr. Lewis and their wives at the home of a mutual friend in Toronto, and Mr. Lewis was “very cheered” by Mr. Rae's interest.

But, while driving home afterward, Mr. Lewis's wife, journalist and feminist Michele Landsberg, turned to him, the way that wives often do at the end of an evening, and said: “Did you not understand that he is not one of us? His basic convictions are not ours.”

Mr. Lewis replied, as husbands often do: “Are you crazy?”

As history unfolded – with the NDP's move to the centre, the Liberal-NDP accord after the 1985 election, the NDP's surprising victory in 1990 and Mr. Rae's desperate attempts to cope with the deep recession of the early 1990s and the loss of more than 300,000 manufacturing jobs in the cataclysmic adjustment to free trade – Mr. Lewis says he came to see that his wife “was entirely and totally right.”

He cheerfully admits that “she's never let him forget it,” especially when Mr. Rae instituted the Social Contract, in which public-sector employees kept their jobs but were forced to take two or three unpaid holidays a week – the notorious Rae Days, which lost him support on the left even as he was being pummelled over deficits and affirmative-action policies by the right, and led to the landslide election of Mike Harris's Tories in 1995.

Mr. Rae resigned his own seat in 1996 and quit the party in 1998, but it wasn't until 2002 that he published an opinion piece in the press announcing a definitive break with the NDP, saying its economic policies (as well as its position on Israel) had become out-of-touch. And it was only in 2006 that he joined the Liberals and made his first run for the leadership, losing to Mr. Dion. He returned to Parliament as the Liberal member for Toronto Centre in 2008, then lost a second leadership contest to Mr. Ignatieff that summer.

Mr. Rae says he always knew that he wasn't an ideologue. But, as premier, he had to confront rhetoric with pragmatism and, for somebody who had always excelled at politics, the failure of his own ambitions.

For his part, Mr. Lewis believes that Mr. Rae has “an extraordinary and uncanny political ability” and is “one of the most able politicians in the country,” but “he seems a thousand times more comfortable as a Liberal than he ever did a New Democrat.”

There was more going on in Mr. Rae's rocky performance as premier than lousy economic times, Mr. Lewis says: “He was a Liberal acting as a New Democratic premier and he didn't know how to integrate the two into his performance,” he said. “And now he is a Liberal acting as a Liberal and he is totally comfortable.”


End of part 1



It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2012, 12:45:30 »
Part 2 of 2

Quote
The best defence . . .

“What Bob Rae has to worry about are the attack ads,” a pal proclaimed at a Toronto dinner party just after Christmas, alluding to the Conservative tradition of ad-hominem assaults, dating back to Kim Campbell and the television images ridiculing Jean Chrétien's facial deformity in the 1993 election campaign, but especially the way the Conservatives lacerated both Mr. Dion and Mr. Ignatieff – the latter with the much-repeated slogan “He didn't come back for you.”

On the eve of the Liberal policy convention, the Conservatives tipped their hand that they considered Mr. Rae a leadership threat by issuing a statement ridiculing the Liberals for being like “lemmings,” ready to follow him off the edge of a political cliff.

Mr. Rae came out swinging in a blistering defence of his tenure as premier of Ontario before the caucus, saying, “I was a piker compared to Jim Flaherty and Stephen Harper. Better a Rae Day than a Harper lifetime.” He was still at it the following week in an interview with GeorgeStroumboulopoulos, delivering a “just watch me” diatribe worthy of Mr. Trudeau during the October Crisis.

In conversation, Mr. Rae, who has always said politics is more like “hockey than ballet,” is less heated but equally insistent that he can and will defend his record. But he has a few other arrows in his quiver aside from toughness. He credits his experiences as a mediator and as an international representative with improving his “basic ability to interconnect.”

He says he is also “a lot more relaxed than I used to be. I genuinely enjoy meeting people and going on tours, and I think that has allowed me to put things in perspective.”

As well, unlike Mr. Dion or Mr. Ignatieff, Mr. Rae is a known quantity. His record as premier has been minutely documented, beginning with Thomas Walkom's excoriating condemnation, Rae Days: The Rise and Follies of the NDP, in 1994. Can there possibly be any more skeletons in that Queen's Park broom closet?

No, says Ms. Perley Rae, a fervent supporter of her husband's record and abilities. “He's got the wisdom and the learning, but there is nothing else to reveal,” she says. “There is a slightly brash confidence that comes when you are young, but suddenly to be hurled into the premiership was a big job. He's more relaxed now. He's more fun.”

An entire generation has grown up since Mr. Rae's government was defeated in 1995. In the meantime, as a self-defined “recovering politician,” he developed a reputation for taking on difficult issues: the Air India bombing, the restructuring of the Red Cross, the Toronto Symphony Orchestra, the crisis at Burnt Church and nation-building in the Forum of Federations.

That's the way Mr. Rae sees the interim leadership – as a challenge to fix the Liberal Party. “This is more complicated because it is a political party and everything is done in public.”

Comeback kid

Mr. Rae is far from being the first politician to come out of the wilderness and back into the fray. The list includes Robert Bourassa in Quebec, Mr. Chrétien and even Richard Nixon in the U.S.

But is he too old? “Bullshit,” he says.

At the convention, I heard him use an even stronger expletive, after pointing out that his grandmother, Nell, had lived to be 107 and that his mother was doing just fine at 97. “My generation are going to want to stay active, and frankly they are going to have to, in many cases,” he says. Rather than age, he wants to talk about experience and vision.

Mr. Barber, the delegate from Simcoe North, who is also a teacher at a correctional centre in Penetanguishene, Ont., agrees, citing Jean Chrétien as an example. He was dubbed “yesterday's man” when he became Liberal leader in 1990, but went on to win three majority governments.

“People re-elected Jean Chrétien consistently because he had a good sense of what the Canadian public wanted,” Mr. Barber says. “And that is something we have lost. Bob, for all of his history, is very forward-looking.”

Mr. Barber thinks that the party needs to absorb the lesson of the current NDP, which is dropping in the polls after the death of Jack Layton. “You need a really good organization and a strong leader. If you are missing one or the other, your success isn't going to last.”

The only way to have both is to open up the institution – as Mr. Bissell, the University of Toronto president, did when Mr. Rae was a student – and let a younger generation participate in rebuilding for a new, more democratic age.

That process, led by Mr. Rae, will draw in more leadership candidates, Mr. Barber is betting, and that's a good thing – for the party and Mr. Rae. He has “made the job look attractive again.”

Sandra Martin is a feature writer for The Globe and Mail.


I had not heard the story of Michelle Landsberg's prescient observation that "he (Rae) is not one of us (real, dyed in the wool, born and bred NDPers) ... His basic convictions are not ours."


End of Part 2 of 2
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #53 on: March 21, 2012, 07:35:26 »
Evidently Conservative attack ads are not Bob Rae's only problem, according to this article which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the National Post[/i}:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/03/20/john-ivison-conservative-ads-could-force-bob-rae-to-make-decision-on-liberal-leadership/
Quote
Conservative ads could force Bob Rae to make decision on Liberal leadership

John Ivison

Mar 20, 2012


You can tell when Bob Rae is getting annoyed — the contrived chuckle is superceded by a sound like a sausage stewing in its own grease. When he was asked about the new Conservative ads that attack his record as Ontario’s NDP Premier on CBC’s Power and Politics, he started to fizz and pop.

The ads ask if Mr. Rae “couldn’t run a province, why does he think he can run Canada?” They have clearly chafed the interim Liberal leader. If the Conservatives are going to highlight all the bad news that happened on his watch, they should also mention the Toronto Blue Jays won two World Series, Nelson Mandela was released from prison and the Soviet Union collapsed, he told Evan Solomon. Eh? Maybe he’d been out in the unseasonally sunny weather too long without a hat.

“I’m not uniquely responsible” for the recession that sent unemployment and deficits soaring in Ontario in the early 1990s, he said. No — but the NDP government made the worst of a bad job, by the account of even the most charitable observers.

Mr. Rae now thinks the Liberal party has a “responsibility” to respond and defend his record as NDP Premier. The party is planning to raise new money in response to the ad and mount a counter-attack with those funds.

This has triggered a backlash from a number of Liberals I spoke to Tuesday, who are uncomfortable about the idea of squandering the party’s meagre war-chest to defend the man who is still, nominally, the interim leader.

In public, Mr. Rae dismisses the thought he might run to be permanent leader as “idle speculation.” But in his own mind, it seems, he already has the job. If you doubt this, go to the Liberal.ca website and scroll to the Meet Bob Rae section, where he is introduced as “Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada.”

“I became Liberal Leader to put my experience to the task of rebuilding our Party and defending the socially compassionate, fiscally responsible values that are at the heart of our vision for a Liberal Canada,” says Bob the Rebuilder. In line 27, you can find the word “interim.”

Senior Conservatives said last year that they weren’t planning to waste their time and money assassinating the character of a stop-gap leader. Perhaps they just got tired of waiting for it to become official.

Whatever the catalyst, it has resuscitated the deep uneasiness many Liberals feel about Mr. Rae continuing to act as interim leader while not ruling out his ambitions to run for the job permanently. In a report last year, former Liberal president Alf Apps suggested it would be unfair for the interim leader to run for the full-time job, given the in-built advantages of incumbency, such as control over caucus appointments and access to party funding and communications resources.

Either from fear or a genuine sense of party unity, none of the MPs or senior party figures who covet the permanent job are prepared to break ranks but neither are they impressed with the idea of spending party funds to defend Mr. Rae’s record as NDP Premier.

Unity is holding for now but pressure is building for Mr. Rae to make a decision: Either renounce any hopes of becoming permanent leader and stay as interim; or, declare his ambition and step down. “People want to know,” said one person with leadership ambitions. “It’s not personal but he’s put himself and the party behind the eight ball.”

Marc Garneau, the Montreal Liberal MP who is testing the waters for a bid of his own, said he would like Mr. Rae to make a decision by the fall. He said he wants to talk to his caucus colleagues before making any comment on whether the Strong Start fund, designed to pay for counter-attack ads, should be tapped to defend Mr. Rae’s record. “When we created the notion of a separate fund, it was for the [permanent] leader,” he said.

Yet Liberals say leadership is the subject that dare not speak its name — certainly not in caucus, where Mr. Rae has never raised it.

And why would he? There’s a chill running along the Liberal benches looking for spine to run up. Until someone forces the issue, Mr. Rae can continue to fashion the game to his own advantage.

National Post
jivison@nationalpost.com

The Liberal Party has some real leadership problems:

First: By long standing party tradition it is a francophone's turn to lead (but need (s)he be a Québec franco?). Rae is an anglo Ottawa native who was raised and educated there and in Washington and Europe; he attended the University of Toronto and Oxford; that pedigree hardly puts him in the league of Laurier, St Laurent, Trudeau, Chrétien and Dion; and

Second: The party may have seen the errors of its ways in having been focused too much in the leader and too little in the potential cabinet team. To be fair this problem is neither new nor uniquely Liberals.

As a card carrying, dues paying Conservative I rather hope Bob Rae becomes the leader - despite being smart, a good parliamentary performer and, even, charming, I am 99.99% convinced that he cannot lead the Liberals back into power in 2015, and either or both of age and Liberal long knives will deny him an opportunity to do so in 2019.
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2012, 08:37:45 »
Here is a reverse view, reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/john-ibbitson/bob-rae-attack-ad-shows-its-a-liberal-revival-the-tories-fear-most/article2376179/
Quote
Bob Rae attack ad shows it’s a Liberal revival the Tories fear most

JOHN IBBITSON

Globe and Mail Update
Published Wednesday, Mar. 21, 2012

There is a reason the Conservative Party launched an attack ad against Bob Rae on the same week as the NDP leadership convention.

The Conservatives are convinced Mr. Rae will lead the Liberal Party into the next election–an increasingly safe assumption. And they fear him more than they fear whomever the New Democrats choose on Saturday. So while the Tories wait to learn who will lead the official opposition, they’re getting their licks in against what they see as the greater threat.

Though nominally only interim leader, Mr. Rae’s hold on the job appears unassailable. Potential rivals – Quebec MP Justin Trudeau, former Quebec cabinet minister Martin Cauchon, New Brunswick MP Dominic LeBlanc – have either decided they’re not interested, or have tested the waters and found them frigid. Ottawa MP David McGuinty, brother to Ontario’s premier, and MP and former astronaut Marc Garneau may also be interested, but at this point Mr. Rae is seen as by far the most credible permanent leader for the third party.

Mr. Rae has solid support in caucus, and can point to rising poll numbers as proof of his effectiveness on the job. He may also be the best candidate to execute a strategy penned by John Duffy, a former adviser to Paul Martin, whose recent article in Policy Options magazine has been widely and carefully read by Liberals everywhere.

Mr. Duffy believes Canada is fracturing between the commodity producing West and the industrial East, which is suffering from the high dollar those commodities fetch.

“If the Liberals can convincingly tag the Conservatives as favouring the commodity economies of their political heartland at the expense of the rest,” he wrote, then the Liberals will possess “narrative and demographic and regional bases of support that truly challenge the foundations of Conservative power.”

The Liberals believe that Mr. Rae has more experience and popular support in Quebec than Montreal MP Thomas Mulcair, who is favoured to become Leader of the Official Opposition after Saturday’s leadership vote. (If the NDP chooses a leader from outside Quebec, so much the better for the Liberals.) The path to power for Mr. Rae and the Grits lies in stripping away from the NDP their Quebec gains while appealing to financially stressed voters in suburban ridings outside Toronto and other Ontario cities. Such a coalition would also embrace voters everywhere who can be found on the losing side of the “two Canadas” that Mr. Duffy sees: one prospering and happy with smaller government, the other struggling and in need of help.

To destroy Mr. Rae’s credibility before it becomes too deeply entrenched, the Conservatives are already trying to tar him with his record as Ontario NDP premier in the 1990s. Whether Ontario voters are ready to forgive and forget that unhappy past could determine Mr. Rae’s future. In any case, for the Tories the 2015 election is clearly already underway.

The Conservatives and the NDP would both benefit from seeing the Liberal Party expunged. For the NDP, it would make them the only realistic alternative to the Conservatives. For the Conservatives, a two-party race against social democrats is a race they are confident of winning over and over again.

No doubt the Tories will also prepare a line of attack against the NDP leader, once he or she is in place. But their heart won’t be in it. It is a Liberal revival they fear most.

That fear is behind the Tory attack ad on Bob Rae. It will be the first of many.


While I agree that Bob Rae is a very effective HoC debater and does well on TV - where he almost always gets a sympathetic interview - I really doubt he can revitalize a political party that has lost its way and, I think its purpose. The big danger for the Liberals will come from a Mulcair led NDP which will try to move towards the political centre, squeezing the Liberals out.

I think the Conservatives are engaging a target of opportunity, they are not wasting ammunition - Rae is a worthwhile, legitimate target, but the full fire plan - aimed at damaging both the Liberals and the NDP - will not be unleashed until later this year and it will grow in intensity until the campaign, proper, in 2015.

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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #55 on: March 21, 2012, 10:40:03 »
I think that if the LPC elects a francophone to be the leader, it will confirm the LPC is old Canada, and new Canada will not vote for the Liberals. It will be worse if the new leader is a Québec franco.

We are sick to the teeth with Quebec and it's constant whining.

My bucket list includes throwing out bilingualism (sorta Bill 101 for Canada), while still offering Federal services in French and English as dictated by population percentages in that area.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #56 on: March 21, 2012, 11:10:33 »
I think that if the LPC elects a francophone to be the leader, it will confirm the LPC is old Canada, and new Canada will not vote for the Liberals. It will be worse if the new leader is a Québec franco.

We are sick to the teeth with Quebec and it's constant whining.

My bucket list includes throwing out bilingualism (sorta Bill 101 for Canada), while still offering Federal services in French and English as dictated by population percentages in that area.

Wow, pretty sacreligious there, R62.  :) I think I will put this on my bucket list too.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2012, 13:30:00 »
I would expect that the voter results seen in Layton's old riding during the By-election does not bode well for CPC.  Mind you a great deal can happen between now and 2015, however, if this Robocall issue takes wing and necessitates numerous new By-elections the CPC will take a beating in every riding involved.  This could be a game changer for the LPC in returning from the dead and back into power in 3 years.  I'm sure Rae must be on the horns of a dilemma with drooling in anticipation and the to be or not to be-ish of it all.  The sounds of squirrels that must be running in their cages at the LPC headquarters right now must be deafening.   >:D
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #58 on: March 21, 2012, 13:58:09 »
There was never any chance that Layton's seat would not remain in the hands of the NDP. The vote numbers have absolutely no bearing on the national scene. WRT robocall et al, Elections Canada has already stated that they had no bearing on the outcome of the election. Don't hold your breath waiting for by elections. That being said, the after effects for the guilty party may be spectacular.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #59 on: March 21, 2012, 14:20:21 »
There was never any chance that Layton's seat would not remain in the hands of the NDP. The vote numbers have absolutely no bearing on the national scene. WRT robocall et al, Elections Canada has already stated that they had no bearing on the outcome of the election. Don't hold your breath waiting for by elections. That being said, the after effects for the guilty party may be spectacular.
Of course Layton's seat was pretty safe, no issue.  Was not aware that EC said no on outcome of vote.  If the election was being held today the results might be vastly different.  I don't believe there would be a majority for sure and maybe not even a minority for the CPC, people are mighty pissed off.  Whomever is responsible for the Robocall issue is going to rue it when the smoke clears.
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Offline Rifleman62

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #60 on: March 21, 2012, 15:56:43 »
jollyjacktar:
Quote
people are mighty pissed off

Who, why?

Even the CBC ....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/19/pol-political-traction-mar10-16.html

Robocalls stall in Ottawa

Interest in the controversy over fraudulent election calls fell substantially in Ottawa, where pundits focused on the government's decision to support an NDP motion to give Elections Canada stronger investigative tools. Outside Ottawa, Canadians were more interested in Pierre Poutine and the Guelph case, but an overall downward trend suggests Ottawa pundits, media and Canadians are losing interest as the opposition fails to deliver a "silver bullet." The clock is ticking for the opposition to produce a knock-out punch on this issue, with the NDP convention and federal budget about to dominate the conversation.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #61 on: March 21, 2012, 16:15:38 »
jollyjacktar:
Who, why?

Even the CBC ....

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2012/03/19/pol-political-traction-mar10-16.html

Robocalls stall in Ottawa

Interest in the controversy over fraudulent election calls fell substantially in Ottawa, where pundits focused on the government's decision to support an NDP motion to give Elections Canada stronger investigative tools. Outside Ottawa, Canadians were more interested in Pierre Poutine and the Guelph case, but an overall downward trend suggests Ottawa pundits, media and Canadians are losing interest as the opposition fails to deliver a "silver bullet." The clock is ticking for the opposition to produce a knock-out punch on this issue, with the NDP convention and federal budget about to dominate the conversation.
Folks here in Halifax are cranky judging by the Newstalk Radio.  They were interviewing one of the Ottawa based hacks today and he indicated that seeing as Circus is out of session this week things have slowed down.  He said that EC is still on the job and it will take it's own sweet time.  The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind finely.  Maybe things will cool off, but I expect they will soon boil over if the heat turns on again.
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #62 on: March 21, 2012, 16:57:57 »
Folks here in Halifax are cranky judging by the Newstalk Radio.  They were interviewing one of the Ottawa based hacks today and he indicated that seeing as Circus is out of session this week things have slowed down.  He said that EC is still on the job and it will take it's own sweet time.  The mills of the gods grind slowly, but they grind finely.  Maybe things will cool off, but I expect they will soon boil over if the heat turns on again.

Folks in Halifax are always cranky. They don't need a reason ;)
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #63 on: March 21, 2012, 18:24:43 »
Folks in Halifax are always cranky. They don't need a reason ;)
Well that's true more often than not.  They do seem to have a hate on for the PM and his party.  Today, however, with such fine weather outside everyone is in a good humour.  It'll be back to bitchin next week when we get more snow and Parliament resumes.
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Offline Jed

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #64 on: March 21, 2012, 18:31:15 »
Well that's true more often than not.  They do seem to have a hate on for the PM and his party.  Today, however, with such fine weather outside everyone is in a good humour.  It'll be back to bitchin next week when we get more snow and Parliament resumes.

I bet they wear their suspenders and belt at the same time with pants pulled up to their chest as they complain about the government full time. Just like me.  >:D
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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #65 on: March 21, 2012, 19:07:36 »
I bet they wear their suspenders and belt at the same time with pants pulled up to their chest as they complain about the government full time. Just like me.  >:D
You mean "those" suspenders and garter belt with the underpants pulled up to the chest...  >:D
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Offline mad dog 2020

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #66 on: April 04, 2012, 13:10:14 »
Abandon Ship,
"Rae demands Harper resign over stealth fighter fiasco"
Can you just imagine if this was done.
RAE or Mulchair in the pilot seat.
Talk about power hungry and at what price to us.

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #67 on: April 04, 2012, 14:02:44 »
I keep hearing how the press have been bailing on Bob everytime Mulcair sticks his nose out the door.  That must really rot him to the core.   ;D
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Offline Jim Seggie

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #68 on: April 04, 2012, 14:05:17 »
I keep hearing how the press have been bailing on Bob everytime Mulcair sticks his nose out the door.  That must really rot him to the core.   ;D

IMO neither one could organize a one man race to a two hole crapper. Limosine liberals.

At least Jack rode a bike.
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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2012, 14:13:09 »
Oh, you should not tempt a poor sailor to make quips about riding bikes...  >:D :-X
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Offline Jim Seggie

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2012, 14:20:58 »
Oh, you should not tempt a poor sailor to make quips about riding bikes...  >:D :-X

I dare ya...double dog dare...... >:D
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Offline mad dog 2020

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2012, 14:45:31 »
MP generous pension? Yes the limousine Liberals

"The musing followed interim Liberal leader Bob Rae's comment that Mulroney's government changed the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act just as he was leaving office so that prime ministers would get the equivalent of two-thirds of his or her salary at age 65.

In fact, the retirement allowance for prime ministers was actually brought in under the Liberal government of Lester Pearson and later revised under Pierre Trudeau — a mistake the current Grits have since apologized for."

Offline recceguy

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2012, 15:16:52 »
MP generous pension? Yes the limousine Liberals

"The musing followed interim Liberal leader Bob Rae's comment that Mulroney's government changed the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act just as he was leaving office so that prime ministers would get the equivalent of two-thirds of his or her salary at age 65.

In fact, the retirement allowance for prime ministers was actually brought in under the Liberal government of Lester Pearson and later revised under Pierre Trudeau — a mistake the current Grits have since apologized for."

Rae keeps forgetting that Canadians (Ontarians more so) don't have the conveniently short memories he wishes we had.

He seems to be surpassing his predecessor's image of pompous ignorance and out of touch reality. Not to mention his ever increasing insignificance.

It seems Mulcair is playing games. Everytime Rae gets the Press corp gathered around, Mulcair sticks his head in the door and they run to him, leaving Rae standing there looking like a goof. (oops seen that's already been noticed and posted) 8)
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Offline GAP

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #73 on: April 04, 2012, 15:19:23 »
But it is funny
REMEMBER SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #74 on: April 04, 2012, 15:21:49 »
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." 2007 winning entry, Texas A&M University - most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

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Offline Oldgateboatdriver

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Re: Rae won't say so out loud, but he aches to be PM
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2012, 15:34:25 »
When the liberals adopted all those wonderful measures that built the limousine, Rae was an NDPer - That's why he keeps forgetting that it was the party he now leads that adopted them.