Author Topic: Operational Service Medals?  (Read 8434 times)

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Offline misratah500

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Operational Service Medals?
« on: November 24, 2011, 11:16:09 »
Have any of these been issued yet. They Haiti one, or the Expedition one. They released these medals about a year ago but I haven't heard about anyone getting them awarded them yet. I've had my paperwork in for the OSM Exp since last spring now and haven't heard a whiff. Do you think they mint is really busy or something like that.

Offline 211RadOp

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2011, 11:21:09 »
I recieved my OSM-Humanitas this past summer, as did all the members of the DART Sigs Tp.
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Offline frank1515

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2011, 11:51:24 »
The major I work with got his OSM-Sudan about 6 months ago.
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2011, 12:03:08 »
Thousands have been issued and the Mint is pumping them out as fast as they can.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2011, 13:52:09 »
Got my OSM-Haiti this spring.

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Offline CDNAIRFORCE

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2011, 14:54:07 »

          I've seen several different OSMs here in Cold Lake but in conversation with a friend waiting for his OSM-Haiti it seems it has a lot to do with the people in your CoC and OR. He was in Haiti with the Infantry seven years ago and is still waiting to be presented his. (He works at a squadron now) Despite dozens of visits over the past year to the OR to make sure there is no paperwork problem, as well as intervention on his behalf from supervisors, he's still waiting. Yet a guy currently at the same unit as him who was in Haiti at the same time (with a Tac Hel unit) received his last year. Also his former infantry co-workers from who remained in the infantry up to this point also have received their medals.

        He figures at this point he will receive his Libya medal before his OSM-H. Even taking into account the fact that the Libya medal hasn't been developed yet. Although we were told by the General from CEFCOM that it will more than likely be a GCS/GSM with Libya ribbon.

       

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2011, 15:01:21 »
          I've seen several different OSMs here in Cold Lake but in conversation with a friend waiting for his OSM-Haiti it seems it has a lot to do with the people in your CoC and OR. He was in Haiti with the Infantry seven years ago and is still waiting to be presented his. (He works at a squadron now) Despite dozens of visits over the past year to the OR to make sure there is no paperwork problem, as well as intervention on his behalf from supervisors, he's still waiting. Yet a guy currently at the same unit as him who was in Haiti at the same time (with a Tac Hel unit) received his last year. Also his former infantry co-workers from who remained in the infantry up to this point also have received their medals.

        He figures at this point he will receive his Libya medal before his OSM-H. Even taking into account the fact that the Libya medal hasn't been developed yet. Although we were told by the General from CEFCOM that it will more than likely be a GCS/GSM with Libya ribbon.

       
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Offline Infanteer

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2011, 15:12:46 »
Although we were told by the General from CEFCOM that it will more than likely be a GCS/GSM with Libya ribbon.

That certainly fits the description and purpose of the GCS/GSM.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2011, 17:22:59 »
          I've seen several different OSMs here in Cold Lake but in conversation with a friend waiting for his OSM-Haiti it seems it has a lot to do with the people in your CoC and OR. He was in Haiti with the Infantry seven years ago and is still waiting to be presented his. (He works at a squadron now) Despite dozens of visits over the past year to the OR to make sure there is no paperwork problem, as well as intervention on his behalf from supervisors, he's still waiting. Yet a guy currently at the same unit as him who was in Haiti at the same time (with a Tac Hel unit) received his last year. Also his former infantry co-workers from who remained in the infantry up to this point also have received their medals.

        He figures at this point he will receive his Libya medal before his OSM-H. Even taking into account the fact that the Libya medal hasn't been developed yet. Although we were told by the General from CEFCOM that it will more than likely be a GCS/GSM with Libya ribbon.

       

I had to go into my OR twice to get the ball rolling...the gong arrived not long afterwards.  Of course, there was a waiting period while they tried to find someone of an appropriate rank to present it. 

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2011, 17:46:22 »
My paperwork just went in for the OSM (Expedition)........see how long it takes............
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Offline misratah500

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2011, 01:35:50 »
Yeah I just finished up with OP Mobile myself, and I was also wondering what medal they think will be done. We heard a rumor that NATO was going to commission a new medal for Operation Unified Protector. So what if NATO does that, will the CF still create a GCS/GSM for the operation?

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2011, 04:58:24 »
Yeah I just finished up with OP Mobile myself,

I have as well and have heard the same rumours as you but, in the end, NATO medal or not, Canada is free to issue whatever medal it wishes.
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Offline CDNAIRFORCE

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2011, 15:01:01 »

       That would sound like a similar scenario to some of the people here in CL who were involved in the Allied Force campaign in 1999. Most people I know had initially the NATO-K medal for that and when the GCS/GSM with AF bar was introduced several years later they were able to exchange the NATO medal for the other one. On the basis of one mission, one medal they could only wear one or the other.

     That said, there are still a handful who were involved in only the Allied Force campaign who just never bothered to exchange their NATO-K even though they are entitled to the GSM-AF. One person used the phrase "I like the look of the NATO one better."

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2011, 15:36:33 »
       That would sound like a similar scenario

No. What happened for OAF has nothing to do with this.

Back then, Canada had issues the NATO medal and then, years later, created the GCS and decided to replace the NATO medal for these people with the GCS.

If NATO creates a medal for OUP, Canada does not have to issue it to its personnel. Canada can chose to issue its own medal, GCS or otherwise.
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Offline misratah500

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2011, 13:16:15 »
I thought the whole point of overhauling the medals system with the creation of the GCS/GSM/OSM was for quick recognition of missions for personnel. OP Mobile started what back in Feb 2011. I bet we don't see anything till the summer of 2012. Thats a year and a half. I guess that's fast in the government.

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2011, 14:46:04 »
A useful quote from the document organizing/authorizing a recent event in Ottawa:

"Medals.  NATO has created a medal for Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR and Canada has received a copy.  It is currently being considered and a decision is expected in November 2011.  If found suitable by Canada, the medal distribution may start as early as Feb 2012."

Personally, if you look at the description for the GCS, you'll see the following quote: 

"The General Campaign Star (GCS) is awarded to members of the Canadian Forces and members of allied forces working with the Canadian Forces who deploy into a defined theatre of operations to take part in operations in the presence of an armed enemy."

I'm on a wait and see for this....and wait...and wait....interesting that they can deploy us on 26 hours notice, but it takes month to figure out what the appropriate recognition is.  *shrug*  Hurry up and wait....nothing new here.

As for the OSM, I was told by my last unit that the paperwork for my OSM as part of OP Caribe was being delayed in Ottawa....I should go see my new unit OR now I guess and see what they can figure out for me.

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Offline misratah500

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2011, 17:05:06 »
"Medals.  NATO has created a medal for Operation UNIFIED PROTECTOR and Canada has received a copy.  It is currently being considered and a decision is expected in November 2011.  If found suitable by Canada, the medal distribution may start as early as Feb 2012."

Where the heck did this come from? Is this an internal document? Or is it on the DH&H website? This is the most solid thing I've heard about it so far. We heard rumors of NATO making a medal which they rightfully would, but never knew it was finished. I wonder why they would keep it under wraps. I imagine if the CF let them issue the previous NATO medals for OAE, Africa, Kosovo, Yugo etc. Then I pretty sure they'll issue this one as well.

Which is funny because OP Mobile is also the perfect CF mission for an issue of the GCS since it was in the "presence of an armed enemy". I talked to the Charlottetown's clerks and they said that their unit was fighting for two. One from NATO and a GCS. That was back in August. I wonder how thats working out for them. Only time will tell.

But what is apparent is that Stephen Harper really liked this OP because it was his, it was clean, get in get out, no casualties.

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2011, 17:11:22 »
I imagine if the CF let them issue the previous NATO medals for OAE, Africa, Kosovo, Yugo etc. Then I pretty sure they'll issue this one as well.



Thats some funny logic right there. Those medals were issued at a time where there was no corresponding Canadian medal.

In the end, so what ? There will be a medal. NATO or GCS.....whatever..........nothing to get wrapped around the axle over.........
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 17:24:50 by CDN Aviator »
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Offline MJP

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2011, 17:13:37 »

But what is apparent is that Stephen Harper really liked this OP because it was his, it was clean, get in get out, no casualties.

Say what?  How is that even relevant to medals?  And even further to that how is it apparent?  Or is this just a  useless broad-brushing drive by.
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2011, 21:22:03 »
I talked to the Charlottetown's clerks and they said that their unit was fighting for two. One from NATO and a GCS. That was back in August. I wonder how thats working out for them. Only time will tell.

There can be only one.  A principle tenet of the Canadian Honours System is that dual recognition is not allowed.  If Canada accepts a NATO medal into the honours system to recognize this operation, then there will be no GCS issued.  The reason Canada did not accept the NATO ISAF medal (and issued a GCS instead) is because the NATO medal did not cover everything we wanted recognized.
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Offline teenwolf

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2011, 07:29:31 »
The OSM-Exp is listed on my MPRR, but I haven't physically received the medal yet.

Offline misratah500

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2012, 15:12:30 »
No one I know has been issued that medal physically yet. Same goes with the Libyan operation medal. They still haven't decided on that yet. I was told there is a delay in the OSM's. And if I was a betting man I would say the delay is that the mint is too busy minting 60000 queens diamond jubilee medals.

So far they have managed to decorate Gen Bouchard three times for his work but have yet to recognize the crews of Charlottetown, Vancouver or the aiwring. The good General has recieved the Meritorious Service Cross, Legion of Merit (US), and he will get the Order of Canada. jeez. And whatever medal they decide to give out for op mobile. That's four medals in the year he retires. Hell they will probably throw him a QDJM just for the hell foot too. Old Boys network???

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2012, 15:48:45 »
No one I know has been issued that medal physically yet. Same goes with the Libyan operation medal. They still haven't decided on that yet. I was told there is a delay in the OSM's. And if I was a betting man I would say the delay is that the mint is too busy minting 60000 queens diamond jubilee medals.

So far they have managed to decorate Gen Bouchard three times for his work but have yet to recognize the crews of Charlottetown, Vancouver or the aiwring. The good General has recieved the Meritorious Service Cross, Legion of Merit (US), and he will get the Order of Canada. jeez. And whatever medal they decide to give out for op mobile. That's four medals in the year he retires. Hell they will probably throw him a QDJM just for the hell foot too. Old Boys network???

You're not the only one waiting so relax.

You got paid today so the world isn't ending.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2012, 15:59:05 »
You got paid today so the world isn't ending.

We get paid?

 ;D
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2012, 16:17:33 »

You got paid today so the world isn't ending.

Duh, everyone knows it ends on Dec 21, 2012!   :bowing:
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Offline GAP

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2012, 16:27:56 »
We get paid?

 ;D

It's not all Joy you know...... :nod:
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2012, 16:40:35 »
Duh, everyone knows it ends on Dec 21, 2012!   :bowing:

Not Harold Camping.   :bowing:
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Offline Dimsum

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2012, 17:08:31 »
Not Harold Camping.   :bowing:

That reminds me:  I passed by some huge highway signs in Utah and Idaho proclaiming that May 2011 was the end (I think it was those guys?) when I was on my road trip in the States.  I think they were just too embarrassed to ask the ad agency to take them down  :nod:
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2012, 17:43:57 »
Yes, they would be the dumb asses who contracted those signs.  I'd be embarrassed as well, I hope he is.
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Offline MARS

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2012, 21:23:31 »




As for the OSM, I was told by my last unit that the paperwork for my OSM as part of OP Caribe was being delayed in Ottawa....I should go see my new unit OR now I guess and see what they can figure out for me.

NS

I received part of an email chain indicating the same thing.  Some issue with the in/out-chop dates for CARIBBE, as entered by CANADACOM, has resulted in the ceasing of minting/issuing CARIBBE OSMs for the moment.  The Fleet Chief is on it, though.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2012, 21:30:47 »
I received part of an email chain indicating the same thing.  Some issue with the in/out-chop dates for CARIBBE, as entered by CANADACOM, has resulted in the ceasing of minting/issuing CARIBBE OSMs for the moment.  The Fleet Chief is on it, though.

Most units and deployment dates do not show up in the system. My OR pulled up the list and my unit does not show up despite having deployed 3 times to OP CARIBBE.
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Offline misratah500

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2012, 15:36:17 »
So were thinking CANADACOM screwed up or something?

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2012, 15:42:25 »
Can happen at any level.  From what I am told, our information had not even left the ship at 3 months after returning from OP CARIBBE.  Your medal will get to you when it gets to you as always.  But then, I had to initiate my GCS upon my return from the sandbox as we fell through the cracks admin wise in KAF.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2012, 09:38:07 »
OSM -Caribe for one of my guys who sailed last January is finally arriving tomorrow.

Mine from 2008...still in the air....because I was posted off during the middle of that deployment, but my COS was shifted to accomdate completing that trip....so my OR is looking into it.  *sigh*  No rush...it's interesting, they can send you away for 6 months on 26 hours notice, but take months after you get back to figure out how to recognize that service...

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Offline CountDC

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2012, 09:15:50 »
Navyshooter - seems some things never do change.  There is a simple way for that to be done - it is called attach posting  being published in the system so that there is a record.  Unfortunately over the years the Navy has had a very bad record on this and many of our people have unrecognized service as there is no record other than their own memories.  I remember when I first reported to a ship there was a basket stacked with attach posting messages that had never been entered as they were not considered important. I was so shocked until I saw some of the other practices.  Two events that have made this stand out was the Sea Pay audits and the SSM calculations.  So many times the official record showed the member was with ship X while they remembered being with ship Y as a loaner for a few months.

In your case was the COS shifted or was it the RFD that was shifted? COS are usually easier to verify as they are done by the CM while RFD are often done between units via emails/phone calls.
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Offline Pusser

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2012, 11:20:53 »
The problem is that NDHQ (the centre of the universe) assumes everyone does everything the same same way.  When an Army unit deploys, every member of that that unit (the ones that are going that is) is individually attach posted to the deployment location/operation.  Ships, on the other hand are simply assigned and there is no real requirement to attach post anyone because nothing actually changes.  Ships are self-contained in that they take everything with them (files, admin office, pay office, etc).  Even their mailing address doesn't change.  In a previous life, everytime NDHQ published rules for a new benefit, I had to call and remind them that unless they really wanted to deny the benefit to deployed ships, they had to adjust the wording to include those other than whom were "attach posted" to an operation.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #36 on: January 24, 2012, 11:29:55 »
The problem is that NDHQ (the centre of the universe) assumes everyone does everything the same same way.  When an Army unit deploys, every member of that that unit (the ones that are going that is) is individually attach posted to the deployment location/operation.  Ships, on the other hand are simply assigned and there is no real requirement to attach post anyone because nothing actually changes.  Ships are self-contained in that they take everything with them (files, admin office, pay office, etc).  Even their mailing address doesn't change.  In a previous life, everytime NDHQ published rules for a new benefit, I had to call and remind them that unless they really wanted to deny the benefit to deployed ships, they had to adjust the wording to include those other than whom were "attach posted" to an operation.

No, the problem is that the navy thinks in terms of ships and not in terms of people.

There is a requirement to track where people are, not just ships.  Attach posting a person to a ship means the official records state that "Pusser was aboard HMCS Retentive from 15 July through 18 September 2007" - so ten years from now when it's discovered that HMCS Retentive was, in fact, infested with cooties, we can track down Pusser and ensure he gets his shots.

Right now, if I understand CountDC, the problem is that many sailors are brought aboard to fill empty billets but their pers files are never properly annotated - so once the HMCS Retentive cooties scare comes up, "the system" shows that Pusser was at his desk in Jonquiere as N1-5-7-12 at that time and he may not receive the medical attention he requires.


Associating benefits with attach-posted status is a different issue.


(And the current CF method of attach-posting to a deployed UIC has other, more interesting impacts, since the "units" never deploy - meaning a true pedant would observe that CinC commendations can't be given, since the unit that forms the core of the battle group never deployed - its personnel did, but the unit itself did not... but that's another discussion better suited for a stand-up table in the mess)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 11:40:56 by dapaterson »
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #37 on: January 24, 2012, 19:50:50 »
No, the problem is that the navy thinks in terms of ships and not in terms of people.

Yes it does, but what is the point of attach posting someone to the unit to which they are already posted?  Ships ARE different, because when they deploy, they deploy completely.  There is no rear party.  There are no offices in the home port to do the ship's business.  The folks who are left behind are sent to other units or sections to be employed, but the ship is still responsible for all their administration.

Please note that I am not making excuses for poor personnel administration.  When folks make "pier-head jumps" or report for duty on dates other than those on their posting messages, these things need to be recorded and properly accounted for.  The tools exist.  We just need to get better at using them.  Attach posting everyone is not the solution, but neither is failing to attach post some of them.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2012, 13:13:03 »
The problem I refer to is not in regards to the crew posted to the ship.  the problem is the navy likes to loan crew across ships (attach post) and not publish them.  Sometimes it is that a message is generated (ie a basket full of them) but not published into the system.  Sometimes it is a last minute "Freddie is sailing today and needs another Bosn so take one from Athab" with no message cut.

An example I dealt with for a member going on Ops and having to calculate his points (can't remember the actuals so I will make them up but the case is real):

MPRR states member was with Athab Oct 2001 to Sep 2003 at which time the ship did not sail so no points

Check of his pers file shows an att-pst to Iroq Jan 2002 to Jan 2003 which according to the points msg gave him a couple but not enough to increase the OPS FSP.

Member though insist that he was further loaned from the Iroq to Freddie as a last minute replacement prior to doing a NATO Apr 2002 to Sep 2002.  This would not only give him enough points to jump to the next level of OPS FSP but it would increase again while on the op. 

Piece everything together between his records, medal(which also was not recorded on his rcds), Div Notes, etc I was able to prove that he was with Freddie for that time and give him the higher OPS FSP.

If everything had been done properly it would have been 5 minutes of checking the mprr and pers file and entering the information into the calculation sheet.  Instead I spent 2 days compiling everything to put together an air tight case for the member.

I have seen a member be loaned from one ship to another which loaned him to another which in turn loaned him to another (yes 4 ships) and not recorded properly.  Looking at his MPRR he was still with the first ship the entire time.
 
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2012, 13:17:41 »
A request for an under the table "loan" like that was made for CHA recent trip.  My Chief, told them if they did not want to cut a proper request/message etc, No Dice.  He said that if I was there under the radar and ended up hurt, I would be SOL as I was not really there now was I...  Needless to say, I'm not there and someone who was not so fussy is.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2012, 13:29:34 »
A request for an under the table "loan" like that was made for CHA recent trip.  My Chief, told them if they did not want to cut a proper request/message etc, No Dice.  He said that if I was there under the radar and ended up hurt, I would be SOL as I was not really there now was I...  Needless to say, I'm not there and someone who was not so fussy is.

Kudos to your Chief.  Though one shouldn't have to say "Kudos" merely because he's doing his job.  The others who don't care that the admin of their pers is done properly are in need of a bare-headed reminder of the phrase "CONDUCT TO THE PREJUDICE OF GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPLINE".
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2012, 13:52:09 »
Of all the Chief's I have served under.  My former one is the only one who really went out there to look after the welfare of his people on a continual basis.  I had only heard some not complimentary things about this man prior to my arrival there, but it was obviously bad press by jealous peers.  He was the best I have seen in the Navy and I would walk through fire to help this man.  I have had some others at lower ranks, but most of them have since left the service.  The Navy could learn some lessons from the Army on promoting the welfare of your personnel etc etc (such as the troops eat first).  That is not to say that the Navy does it all wrong either.  Each have their good and bad points. 
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2012, 12:33:52 »
Britain has accepted the NATO OUP Non article 5 medal for operations in Libya.


http://www.arrse.co.uk/medals/176831-operations-libya-medal-announced.html

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2012, 12:44:08 »
Britain has accepted the NATO OUP Non article 5 medal for operations in Libya.


http://www.arrse.co.uk/medals/176831-operations-libya-medal-announced.html

Well, the Brits are a different country than Canada so..........what they do does not mean that Canada will do the same, as seen with the QDJM just recently.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2012, 17:02:19 »
Well, considering that people are trading their NATO Kosovo medals in for Allied Force GCSs and GSMs, and that Canadians cannot accept the ISAF NATO medal for Afghanistan due to the GCS/GSM SWA, I think it's safe to say that Canada will be issuing either a GCS/GSM or OSM specifically for Op Mobile.

It probably doesn't help that the CF is knee-deep in the QDJM and trying to keep up with all those new OSMs.

Best keep an eye on the Orders in Council website. Parliament is back and they'll be passing lots of stuff in the coming weeks. It will likely appear there first before anywhere else. CANFORGEN soon after.

http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/oic-ddc.asp?lang=eng&page=secretariats

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2012, 17:06:32 »
or OSM specifically for Op Mobile.

OP MOBILE does not fit the criteria for the OSM.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #46 on: February 08, 2012, 17:28:55 »
True, I doubt they will issue an OSM, but the GCS for the pilots and navy folk and GSM for all the Italy based pers sounds logical to me.

Thoughts? Anyone have any inside info?

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #47 on: February 08, 2012, 17:43:07 »
True, I doubt they will issue an OSM, but the GCS for the pilots and navy folk and GSM for all the Italy based pers sounds logical to me.

Thoughts? Anyone have any inside info?

Well...

There are more than just pilots in aircraft.  Indeed, on a sensor-heavy platform like the Aurora, the rest of the crew is what makes the mission work.

And anyone with inside info wouldn't be allowed to post - since such things are confidences of the Governor in Council until announced.
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #48 on: February 08, 2012, 20:52:41 »
True, yes "aircrew" is a better term to use. If they do go the GCS/GSM route, I wouldn't want to be the one who has to draw the lines on the map to decide who gets what. Would you give the tanker crews, fighter pilots, and aurora crews all the GCS? What would the navy get? Obviously the ground crew and support trades in Italy would get the GSM.

But then there's the problem of a "defined enemy" Did we really conduct operations against a defined enemy? That's the whole base of the GCS/GSM. Maybe then an OSM would be more appropriate? Hard to say. I bet the government is attempting to decide this point now.

I know someone is not going to come right out and say what the medal will be, but there's alot of people with their ears to the ground and lots of generals visiting bases being posed such questions.

I guess time will tell....

Offline Pusser

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #49 on: February 08, 2012, 23:58:31 »
Well, considering that people are trading their NATO Kosovo medals in for Allied Force GCSs and GSMs, and that Canadians cannot accept the ISAF NATO medal for Afghanistan due to the GCS/GSM SWA, I think it's safe to say that Canada will be issuing either a GCS/GSM or OSM specifically for Op Mobile.

Your logic is off.  Canada will only issue its own medal if no other (e.g. UN/NATO) medal is being issued which meets Canada's criteria for recognition and is accepted into the Canadian Honours System.  CF personnel cannot accept the ISAF NATO medal because it has not been accepted into the Canadian Honours System.  It was not accepted because it would not have recognized all the personnel that Canada was sending into that part of the world for the operations Canada wanted recognized.  Therefore, Canada chose to issue the GCS/GSM instead in order to be more inclusive and meet our needs for recognition.  If there is a NATO medal issued that will cover Op MOBILE to Canada's satisfaction, then that will be the one used and no GCS/GSM will be issued

It probably doesn't help that the CF is knee-deep in the QDJM and trying to keep up with all those new OSMs.  These issues are completely irrelevant to the question.

Best keep an eye on the Orders in Council website. Parliament is back and they'll be passing lots of stuff in the coming weeks. It will likely appear there first before anywhere else. CANFORGEN soon after.   Parliament does not pass Orders in Council

http://www.pco-bcp.gc.ca/oic-ddc.asp?lang=eng&page=secretariats
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2012, 04:52:06 »
Did we really conduct operations against a defined enemy?

OP MOBILE was essentially no different that OP ECHO. That operation warranted the GCS (eventually).


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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2012, 07:19:09 »
Quote
SUBJ:  POST COMBAT REINTEGRATION ALLOWANCE (PCRA) FOR OP MOBILE
REFS:  A.  CDS LETTER 5 OCTOBER 2011
B.  CBI 10.3.09 (MFSI)
C.  COS J3 022 302140Z JAN 06
1.  REF A ANNOUNCED THE CDS DESIGNATED OP MOBILE AOR AS A COMBAT
OPERATION FOR THE PURPOSES OF REF B EFFECTIVE 18 MAR 11 - 31 DEC 11

Not sure if this makes a difference to the discussion or not...forwarded to my sailors as soon as I saw it.  (One was entitled to PCRA.)

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Offline misratah500

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2012, 13:53:04 »
That's funny that this came out. Because our clerks told us pcra was not happening. So how does this effect people that didn't take hlta

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2012, 13:56:28 »
No mission leave used in theater = PCRA entitlement.

If you used mission leave while in theater, NO PCRA.

Shoot me a PM with your work e-mail and I can send you a copy of it.

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2012, 13:57:59 »
No mission leave used in theater = PCRA entitlement.
I'm curious.  How much is the PCRA entitlement?
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Offline misratah500

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2012, 14:20:56 »
I was repatriated early in mid November due to compassionate reasons. I took my mission leave at home.  Does this change my eligibility.

Offline Zoomie

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2012, 18:04:59 »
If "they" decide to go the route of a GCS/GSM <Libya> it will require a minimum of 30 combat missions for aircrew to be eligible for the Star. If they don't meet that milestone, they will get the GSM.

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2012, 18:12:34 »
If "they" decide to go the route of a GCS/GSM <Libya> it will require a minimum of 30 combat missions for aircrew to be eligible for the Star. If they don't meet that milestone, they will get the GSM.

Zoomie,

The GCS for OP ALLIED FORCE was issued to pilots and crews who had flow 5 missions over Kosovo and other territory.

The 30-mission requirement is for Crews based outside of the AO and flying into it and back out again, not crews based inside the JOA. For OP MOBILE, both Trapani and Sigonella were inside of the JOA.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 18:15:14 by CDN Aviator »
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2012, 19:31:48 »
I guess we'll just have to wait.  5 missions for a Star seems pretty low - 30 missions is more of a number to work towards. 

30 days on the ground or 30 missions overhead seems like a pretty good starting place.

I'm still waiting to see if the TB declares tax free status for that mission.  If so, we will actually have a leg to stand on for the current Afghan mission.

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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2012, 19:35:04 »


I'm still waiting to see if the TB declares tax free status for that mission.

That has already happened. I received my federal income tax back for that period already. Further to that, on this coming pay, the difference between what we had been paid in RA and the Maximum is being paid to us. HA is also finally being paid

OP ALLIED FORCE GCS criteria :

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/chc-tdh/chart-tableau-eng.asp?ref=GCS_AF

Quote
The GCS with ALLIED FORCE ribbon is awarded to fighter pilots and AWACS crew members who flew at least 5 sorties during Operation ALLIED FORCE from 24 March to 10 June 1999 in the theatre of operations which consisted of the airspace over Kosovo and other territories of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Albania, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and the Adriatic and Ionian seas.

There is no blanket 30-flight requirement for the GCS unless they make it so for that specific mission, as evidence with the ALLIED FORCE one.

The SWA GCS requires 30 sorties for crews flying into theatre, not for the crews based in theatre.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 20:04:15 by CDN Aviator »
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Re: Operational Service Medals?
« Reply #60 on: February 09, 2012, 23:30:17 »
That has already happened. I received my federal income tax back for that period already. Further to that, on this coming pay, the difference between what we had been paid in RA and the Maximum is being paid to us. HA is also finally being paid

That's what I needed to hear. Time to make some waves

SWA aircraft that overfly Afghanistan are also based within the AOR - same as the Libya campaign.  It seems that the criteria for awarding the GCS is skewed.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2012, 17:21:10 by Zoomie »
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