Topic: Controversial contractors paid $2.4M by Canadian Forces

[jollyjacktar]

Shared with the usual caveats.  Oh the horror, the horror   

Documents show Canadian Forces used former Blackwater training facility
By Laura Payton, CBC News

The Canadian Forces spent $2.4 million last year on training at a facility run by Xe Services, the U.S. private security company formerly known as Blackwater.  The company and its training facility were used to teach precision shooting and defensive driving, as well as VIP escort requirements and close quarter combat techniques, according to documents tabled Monday in the House of Commons.

It appears the training provided by Xe instructors was for precision shooting and defensive driving. The documents note much of the training in VIP escorting and close quarter combat was done by CF instructors and standards personnel.  Special forces members also had precision shooting and defensive driving training at the facility, although for operational security reasons the government wouldn't say how many trained there.

Full story at link.  http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/01/31/pol-cf-training-former-blackwater.html

[milnews.ca]

Since I can't see where CBC is sharing the public document they based the story on, you can find the document (a written response to a written question from an MP) attached - enjoy!

[Colin P]

Mr Teapot, please meet Ms Tempest in the CBC Foyer, thank you.

[Macey]

         May be I'm a little uneducated in the access of information. But why is the public allow to find out what DND is spending? Also doesn't OPSEC / PERSEC come into play?  Who is the real enemy? The media, period.

         It's the reason why we aren't in a combat role in Afghanistan now. The media twists everything around, and makes the Government of Canada withdraw with it's tail between it's legs.

        Or may be I'm just a little confused / bitter about my time in the box. I don't know folks. Care to shed some light for me?

Regards,
TN

[milnews.ca]

I hope I don't regret this, but I'm going to give it a try.....

May be I'm a little uneducated in the access of information. But why is the public allow to find out what DND is spending? Also doesn't OPSEC / PERSEC come into play?  Who is the real enemy? The media, period.

In a democratic society, taxpayers should know generally how their money is spent.  That said, not everything is released to the public - for example, in the attached document above, there's a lot of detail NOT mentioned about SF troops.

It's the reason why we aren't in a combat role in Afghanistan now. The media twists everything around, and makes the Government of Canada withdraw with it's tail between it's legs.

The government will do what it will do, based on what they think the public wants - that's another bit of democracy.

Or may be I'm just a little confused / bitter about my time in the box. I don't know folks. Care to shed some light for me?

Believe me when I say that you're certainly not the only person posting/reading here who might be frustrated about what's different between what you saw/lived and what you read/see/hear in the media.  And you have a right to be p***ed off.  Also know that there are folks out there (me included) who appreciate the job you've done (and continue to do, assuming you're not out of the CF).  Try to take the media with a bit of a grain of salt - read a lot of different stuff, and maybe the average of all of it'll come closer to reality.  I've found myself less stressed taking in less media than I used to.

While the media may not be perfect, remember it's better to have lots of outlets to check things out in than to have only one message coming out of one source - didn't work well in the USSR, doesn't seem to be working well in North Korea.

My 

[Dimsum]

The media isn't necessarily the enemy here. 

This is a bit dated (but maybe still valid), but the Danish media helped the Danish military publicize their Afghan contribution so much so that the majority of their public actually supports their mission there (not just "the troops", but what the troops are doing.)  Of course this was when I was there in mid-2010 and in passing convo with some Danish troops, so maybe things have changed.

[jmlane]

I wonder if that is due to the cultural differences between Canadian—with our geographic isolation—and the European intimate knowledge and history of conflict. Surely it is more complex than that, but maybe that is enough to shift public opinion from fear and misunderstand to empathy and support? Would be interesting to read an anthropological theoretical view on the Canadian public opinion of Afghanistan.

[Jim Seggie]

Demotivational poster material here, can any one make it?

"The good old CBC. Undermining military efforts for fifty years!"

[jollyjacktar]

I was not surprised at the left fest amongst the comments, lots of hate there for the military.  Feels like old times again.   

[ModlrMike]

Clearly the CBC has restarted the engine of their anti military machine. I've notice over the last month more and more articles with a negative slant. You're right: feels like old times.

[jmlane]

Is this undermining of the CF by the CBC a political issue? I have no concept of the history involved and would be interested in any materials that can shed light on this historical issue.

[jollyjacktar]

Clearly the CBC has restarted the engine of their anti military machine. I've notice over the last month more and more articles with a negative slant. You're right: feels like old times.

Yup.  Time for Ralph Benmurgi to come up to the surface again.  I still remember his rants of poison from Mid-Day in the 90's (Oka era).  Hate him to this day too.   

[Jim Seggie]

How do we make these posters? I feel artistic today.

"The CBC - trashing the military effort for half a century!"

[jmlane]

How do we make these posters? I feel artistic today.

http://diy.despair.com/

[milnews.ca]

How do we make these posters? I feel artistic today.

"The CBC - trashing the military effort for half a century!"

Wrong CBC, right? 

[Macey]

So we blame the media.... but what about the People of Canada? I sure would point the finger at them, no problem. Can any one say 'Airborne'? Try reading "Who Killing the Canadian Military" and see my view. I try not to be bitter about a lot of things. But I don't trust the People of Canada. ie the public. Or the media.

Regards,
TN

[Beadwindow 7]

So we blame the media.... but what about the People of Canada? I sure would point the finger at them, no problem. Can any one say 'Airborne'? Try reading "Who Killing the Canadian Military" and see my view. I try not to be bitter about a lot of things. But I don't trust the People of Canada. ie the public. Or the media.

From Dave Grossman's On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs ;

The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence.....The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

http://www.mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html

[Jim Seggie]

So we blame the media.... but what about the People of Canada? I sure would point the finger at them, no problem. Can any one say 'Airborne'? Try reading "Who Killing the Canadian Military" and see my view. I try not to be bitter about a lot of things. But I don't trust the People of Canada. ie the public. Or the media.

Regards,
TN

I read that book. Each chapter was dedicated to a different sector, including the CF itself. Each of us has a role - government, the CF, the media, th public etc.
Singling out the people of Canada is unfair. We, in the CF are also people of Canada.

[Hurricane]

Whats more interesting is the comments that the "Experts" of the public have below the article.

[Macey]

From Dave Grossman's On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs ;

I really enjoy reading his work. But I did'nt get the chance to read that one yet.

We, in the CF are also people of Canada.

Hey Jim, I thought we were soldiers. "To close with and destroy the enemy" 



One thing that blows my mind is the "Taliban Propaganda Watch" topic on this forum. Who's side are we on? NATO or Al-Qaeda? Any "reporter" can go on this site, and "research" our forum. Bringing more fuel to the fire.

Remember this is all my opinion. I am very bitter these days.

[Jim Seggie]

We are the people of Canada too. We didn't give up our citizenship when we signed on.

[Kalatzi]

"But I don't trust the People of Canada. "

I understadand that you may be bitter. Thank you and your kin for their service.

I wish you well.

I served in the 70's not a pleasent time. I was about as gung-ho as its would be possible to be.

I hope that you can also see my concern about the - tail wagging the dog?

[1984]

How do we make these posters? I feel artistic today.

"The CBC - trashing the military effort for half a century!"

Not a demotivational poster, and the subject is not the military, but it fits the bill I think.   

[lethalLemon]

Not a demotivational poster, and the subject is not the military, but it fits the bill I think.   

BAhahahahahaha

Oops... For a minute there I thought that it was a joke 

[milnews.ca]

One thing that blows my mind is the "Taliban Propaganda Watch" topic on this forum. Who's side are we on? NATO or Al-Qaeda? Any "reporter" can go on this site, and "research" our forum. Bringing more fuel to the fire.

Happy to take this one, since I populate that thread. 

When you read the statements of Taliban spokespersons in the media, some sound like they're just giving their side of the story.  If you see more of the Taliban's material, you realize just how much they exaggerate. 

One example:  overall, the Taliban was reporting 14 Canadians killed for every one actually killed (see attached).  See that in any mainstream media?  Not so much. 

Another example:  how about the Taliban claiming a Red Cross report says their dead don't rot?  I'm still waiting for media to pick that howler up.

If this is how much they're exaggerating on their web page, could they be doing that when they make other statements to the media?  I'm guessing yes.  But if folks don't see what the bad guys are saying in general, they can't compare, can they?

Hey Jim, I thought we were soldiers. "To close with and destroy the enemy" 

Although not Canadian, a quote from George Washington applies here to some extent:  "When we assumed the Soldier, we did not lay aside the Citizen."  That's inscribed in one of the main structures at Arlington National Cemetery in Washington, D.C.

Remember this is all my opinion. I am very bitter these days.

More than entitled - also good to share it here.