Topic: Is the army for me?

[NLer709B]

So I originally applied for LCIS Tech back in September 2010, done my medical and interview and was basically merit listed up until now. The CF recruiting has began calling me and asked me to come in and redo an interview and update my medical and they say that it looks like they have some job openings in the field of Electonic Optronic Tech coming up.

If I am offered a job as an E.O. Tech and take it, what can I expect in changes to my lifestyle; what kind of money will I make starting out and as I progress and will I ever get to visit home in Newfoundland?

Alot has changed in a year and I am now wondering if this is still a good idea for me personally, it sounds like an awesome job, and I would have jumped on this in a heartbeat back when I applied. Let me know if you have any advice, I want to say yes to a career change, but I don't want to completely leave the life I have now, at 24 years old.

[Charles]

Don't join if you're not 100% positive that you want to.

[Dimsum]

So what you're trying to say is that about a year and a half ago, you asked to join the CF without doing any research on the pay, vacation time or lifestyle. 

[Jammer]

Cut the cord...do the research and decide.
If you're not willing or ready to do that, withdraw your application. Plain and simple.

J.

[dogger1936]

So I originally applied for LCIS Tech back in September 2010, done my medical and interview and was basically merit listed up until now. The CF recruiting has began calling me and asked me to come in and redo an interview and update my medical and they say that it looks like they have some job openings in the field of Electonic Optronic Tech coming up.

If I am offered a job as an E.O. Tech and take it, what can I expect in changes to my lifestyle; what kind of money will I make starting out and as I progress and will I ever get to visit home in Newfoundland?

Alot has changed in a year and I am now wondering if this is still a good idea for me personally, it sounds like an awesome job, and I would have jumped on this in a heartbeat back when I applied. Let me know if you have any advice, I want to say yes to a career change, but I don't want to completely leave the life I have now, at 24 years old.

You'' get to visit twice a year if you keep you finances in order hand can afford to travel home twice a year. Never expect a posting home as they are few and far between and may never occur.

Sometimes life changes and if your questioning your choice perhaps staying in Nfld is the best for you now.

Good luck on your decisions.

[SentryMAn]

Tell the girl you are joining the military.
Tell her it will take you great places and allow you both to see the Country.

www.forces.ca will give you answers to pay, etc.

[NLer709B]

Sorry, I should have been more specific about my situation, and what I was asking. I have my own vehicle, a job that I would consider average and my own apartment in St. John's and I spend alot of time on my laptop and playing guitar and whatnot.

I have done quite a bit of research on the forces and know how to find the information on exact pay scale figures, but I need to know more specific aspects of the lifestyle in the CF.

Will I be able to afford to pay for my vehicle insurance and get to bring my vehicle with me to BMQ? I know the starting wage for a beginning Private is $2665 a month, but how much money will I clear every two weeks? Will I be able to save money while in the CF?

Also, will I be able to take my laptop with me to BMQ? And will I ever get to use it, what about my guitar and other personal belongings? I also have an ATV I own here in Newfoundland, what would be my options for that?

It's not that I don't know what the lifestyle and pay is of the CF, but there's a big difference between what some people tell you, and what you get when you actally get there in person. I was looking to see how big of a change I would experience, I don't want to throw my whole life away for a $350 cheque every week.

Also, how long does it take to advance in the military? I see that the base salary of a Corporal is around $60,000 a year, but does it take 4-5 years to get there, and will I basically have to "suck it up" for the first few years? I've been sucking it up for a few years now (reason why I am interested in other career options at this time) and I don't want to sign a contract for 3 or 4 years when I might be better suited to go back to college or university on my own.

Sorry to be so vague in my previous post, I have so many questions about the CF, after all; It would be my life once I entered into it.

Thanks for the replies and hopefully I can get some answers.

[LOLslamball]

Sorry, I should have been more specific about my situation, and what I was asking. I have my own vehicle, a job that I would consider average and my own apartment in St. John's and I spend alot of time on my laptop and playing guitar and whatnot.

I have done quite a bit of research on the forces and know how to find the information on exact pay scale figures, but I need to know more specific aspects of the lifestyle in the CF.

use the search function...

Will I be able to afford to pay for my vehicle insurance and get to bring my vehicle with me to BMQ? I know the starting wage for a beginning Private is $2665 a month, but how much money will I clear every two weeks? Will I be able to save money while in the CF?

search "bmq pay" 5th result. Quoted from a post by jboyd.

"A recruit actually makes the same amount as a Pte, which is $2624/month. 2009 Pay scale NCM regular force http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dgcb-dgras/ps/pay-sol/pr-sol/rfncmr-mrfr-eng.asp

This amounts to $31,488 annually before taxes.

2009 federal tax rate for income up to $40,726 is 15% (http://www.revenu.gouv.qc.ca/eng/particulier/impots/taux.asp)
If your BMQ is in Quebec and you are taxed by their provincial rate then for 2009 their income tax rate for income up to $38,385 is %16 (http://www.revenu.gouv.qc.ca/eng/particulier/impots/taux.asp)

A rough estimate of income tax taken is $9,761.28 leaving you with $21,726.79 annually (1810.57/month).

Keep in mind this does not include amounts deducted for CPP/QPP, EI, and CF Pension, nor does it include possible separation expense and/or PLD that you could earn during BMQ."

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,26093.msg887147.html#msg887147

I don't know what your expenses are, so I hope you can figure out the rest for yourself.
Also, as with any job it is up to you if you can save money or not.  If you work on the oil rigs and make $100k a year could you save money? yes.  Would you spend it all on hookers, blow and booze? well that's up to you.

Also, will I be able to take my laptop with me to BMQ? And will I ever get to use it, what about my guitar and other personal belongings? I also have an ATV I own here in Newfoundland, what would be my options for that?
search "internet bmq" 2nd result, titled Official Policy Change RE: Electronics during BMQ/BMOQ

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,103685.msg1105119.html#msg1105119

It's not that I don't know what the lifestyle and pay is of the CF, but there's a big difference between what some people tell you, and what you get when you actually get there in person. I was looking to see how big of a change I would experience, I don't want to throw my whole life away for a $350 cheque every week.

Also, how long does it take to advance in the military? I see that the base salary of a Corporal is around $60,000 a year, but does it take 4-5 years to get there, and will I basically have to "suck it up" for the first few years? I've been sucking it up for a few years now (reason why I am interested in other career options at this time) and I don't want to sign a contract for 3 or 4 years when I might be better suited to go back to college or university on my own.

this one was a bit tougher, google search "LCIS Tech  promotion in the canadian army army.ca" first result http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=91978.0 reply #4 posted by Occam

"The promotion to Corporal is virtually automatic.  You'd have to be a complete screwup to not get your CO's recommendation.  The other requirements are a pulse and 48 months service.  Attainment of QL5 status gets you into the Cpl, Spec 1 pay field."




Sorry to be so vague in my previous post, I have so many questions about the CF, after all; It would be my life once I entered into it.

Thanks for the replies and hopefully I can get some answers.

Recruiters are also a great tool to use, they are there to help you. 

Edit: to credit the members who made the posts I quoted

[SentryMAn]

Sorry, I should have been more specific about my situation, and what I was asking. I have my own vehicle, a job that I would consider average and my own apartment in St. John's and I spend alot of time on my laptop and playing guitar and whatnot.

I have done quite a bit of research on the forces and know how to find the information on exact pay scale figures, but I need to know more specific aspects of the lifestyle in the CF.

Will I be able to afford to pay for my vehicle insurance and get to bring my vehicle with me to BMQ? I know the starting wage for a beginning Private is $2665 a month, but how much money will I clear every two weeks? Will I be able to save money while in the CF?
"Can I afford XXX" is a subjective question, only you can answer that.  you will clear about $1900 a month, subtract $400 for Rations and Quaters, so your take home in pocket will be around $1500/month(or $750 bi monthly) to start.
Also, will I be able to take my laptop with me to BMQ? And will I ever get to use it, what about my guitar and other personal belongings? I also have an ATV I own here in Newfoundland, what would be my options for that?
Take what ever you wish to BMQ, you car, personal belonging, etc.  You will have limited access to them and remember this.
It's not that I don't know what the lifestyle and pay is of the CF, but there's a big difference between what some people tell you, and what you get when you actally get there in person. I was looking to see how big of a change I would experience, I don't want to throw my whole life away for a $350 cheque every week.
If you feel you are "throwing your life away" by joining the military, please rethink the whole situation of joining.
Also, how long does it take to advance in the military? I see that the base salary of a Corporal is around $60,000 a year, but does it take 4-5 years to get there, and will I basically have to "suck it up" for the first few years? I've been sucking it up for a few years now (reason why I am interested in other career options at this time) and I don't want to sign a contract for 3 or 4 years when I might be better suited to go back to college or university on my own.
Short answer "Yes" it will take time to get to Corporal, just like it takes time and ability to get trade training, specialist training etc., VERY similarly to getting a trade in Civie land.  Last I checked you still need to go to trade school and apprentice for a while to get papers.  No job will start you out making big money, not even in Alberta will you start making huge sums of money.
Sorry to be so vague in my previous post, I have so many questions about the CF, after all; It would be my life once I entered into it.

Thanks for the replies and hopefully I can get some answers.

I'll answer the above from what I know, I went through BMOQ in 2009(not BMQ) so there may be differences.
See above for my limited answers in Bold.

If you are in a job without a future, I would strongly suggest you look into options, not just military.

[NLer709B]

Thanks for the posts to my questions, it helps alot! I have asked a few questions to a friend of mine who is in the regular force as a tank crewman, however he doesn't have his own personal laptop, so it's hard to ask him questions about that kind of thing.

I just wonder if my life will change alot, will I have personal time of my own or will I always be sleeping in rooms with a bunch of guys, with alot of noise and things like that. I'm 24 years old and I have a lifestyle of my own built up, so I have to wonder what daily life will be like during and after BMQ. At this stage it's almost as if the only thing left for me to do is to just go do it. I've been speaking with recruiters on and off for a year and a half now, I love the way the job sounds, and the pay of course makes sense to me, as in that it won't start out huge but there is much room for advancement, which my job at this time does not have.

I really appreciate you guys answering the questions I have, I know you must think I am foolish for mulling over things such as "can bring my laptop" and whatnot, but I'm glad you answered them the same, because these are the things that are important to me.

On another note, a poster above said that you get to visit home twice a year, is there certain times of the year this has to occur or anything else to note about time you get to visit home? I don't mind being away from home, since right now I now fish offshore on fishing vessels for about a week at a time with no phone/TV or internet.

Also, my buddy in the reg force who I am speaking with; he leaves on Monday and comes back to what he calls "Garrison" on Friday and between Monday and Friday he lives in shacks; can anyone relate to these living conditions?

[LOLslamball]

I am on my phone now so I'm not going to do any more searching for you. I did read a thread on life after bmq recently. Probably in recruiting.

A lot is two words.

[ObedientiaZelum]

OP, your things and time sound too important to you. I don't think you would enjoy the life style of a soldier very much.

There are people on these forums who are fighting tooth and nail to get in, perhaps you should step aside and let them by.

[CDN Aviator]

I just wonder if my life will change alot, will I have personal time of my own or will I always be sleeping in rooms with a bunch of guys, with alot of noise and things like that. I'm 24 years old and I have a lifestyle of my own built up, so I have to wonder what daily life will be like during and after BMQ. At this stage it's almost as if the only thing left for me to do is to just go do it. I've been speaking with recruiters on and off for a year and a half now, I love the way the job sounds, and the pay of course makes sense to me, as in that it won't start out huge but there is much room for advancement, which my job at this time does not have.

You said you have done much research eh ?

[Bart905]

By following topics on this site on daily bases I read that a regular day is from 8-4 . Basically you can play your guitar or on your laptop after 4 . There will be times that you get send to another town province or country for training for a while but other then that its like a regular job.

[Eye In The Sky]

If I am offered a job as an E.O. Tech and take it, what can I expect in changes to my lifestyle; what kind of money will I make starting out and as I progress and will I ever get to visit home in Newfoundland?

You can read tons on here about CF lifestyle stuff. 

- CF NCM Pay rates.  You'll start at Pte.  Your Pay Increment for Pte will go up once a year, anniversary being on/around your swearing in date.  After/IF you pass all the trg, and after 48 months of service, you should/may be promoted Cpl.  As EO Tech is a Specialist pay trade, after you are a Cpl and have completed your QL5 course, you will move over to the Specialist 1 pay group.  After that will depend on how you work, leadership potential, etc etc.  Cpl 4, Spec 1 isn't bad money at all IMO.

- Vacation, which we call leave.  Up until your 5th year of service, you will get 20 days Annual Leave a year, starting on year 5, it goes up to 25 days Annual Leave.  Where you go is up to you (assuming in Canada and non-Scheduled countries only).  You will also get all the normal Federal stat holidays, and usually around 5 days Special and Short leave at Christmas (unit and other factors will factor in).  I had 23 days leave at Christmas this year, but thats this year.  I've had less, and I've used more.

Alot has changed in a year and I am now wondering if this is still a good idea for me personally, it sounds like an awesome job, and I would have jumped on this in a heartbeat back when I applied. Let me know if you have any advice, I want to say yes to a career change, but I don't want to completely leave the life I have now, at 24 years old.

Looks like you need to talk to the guy in the mirror about that.  You have no idea where  your first posting will be for sure.  Could be NB, could be Alberta, could be "anywhere Apprentice level EO Techs are posted".

[Spectrum]

A regular day is whatever your unit and supervisors dictate for you. For the record, I don't think I have ever worked 8-4. Some do though. Sure most of the time it can be a "normal" job depending on where you work. However, there are times when duties, training or operational taskings and deployments come up. They take precedence. You don't get a choice to just opt out of work when it may inconvenience you. It's your job. That's the idea prospective recruits need to get into their head.

You aren't going to be playing your guitar in CDNAviator's aircraft...and Eye In the Sky isn't going to let you either (educated guess at least!) , you won't be playing on your phone or laptop at my work, and a Platoon Commander at a FOB in some third world country has better things to do then to deal with a Pte's home sickness or financial woes.

The military really is not a bad go at all, it's the best job I've ever had, even on the stupidest possible days. If you don't think you can set aside your personal needs and life when ordered to, or you can't keep your life in check while on training or deployment, please stay home. I could get a call right now telling me to pack my bags, and I'd be fine with that. My biggest concern as a single person would be who is going to start my sports car (bought and paid for with my CF salary) while I am away. In fact, I get so bored here that I'd LOVE to get a call like that right now. Obviously it is different for older people with wives and children, but they still manage with lives that are far more complex than yours or mine.

Anyways...I don't want anyone to consider this an attack. It's just my honest opinion. If you can't put your life on hold from time to time, please refrain from wearing the Canadian flag on your shoulder. We already have enough people that try to get out of work, and that just makes it harder for the rest of us. We don't need any more.

If however, you want a career change and are willing to put the effort in, I don't think you will be let down as long as your expectations are realistic. The pay and benefits really aren't bad at all. The first year's pay isn't great since you are paying for rations and quarters, but later on you can get your own place or de-link from rations in some places, and then it starts getting good. As a Pte IPC 3 or a Cpl (especially with Spec pay) you should have no problem paying the bills and having a pretty comfortable life. Tons of people I've worked with are from Nfld, so there must be some reason they aren't back home. 

Good luck with your decision, and try to make the right one for yourself and the CF, regardless of what your choice is.

[Dimsum]

You aren't going to be playing your guitar in CDNAviator's aircraft...

Ah, you just don't know him well enough.  He's a teddy bear.   

[AirForceMonkey]

OP, your things and time sound too important to you. I don't think you would enjoy the life style of a soldier very much.

There are people on these forums who are fighting tooth and nail to get in, perhaps you should step aside and let them by.

I second that!

[NLer709B]

A regular day is whatever your unit and supervisors dictate for you. For the record, I don't think I have ever worked 8-4. Some do though. Sure most of the time it can be a "normal" job depending on where you work. However, there are times when duties, training or operational taskings and deployments come up. They take precedence. You don't get a choice to just opt out of work when it may inconvenience you. It's your job. That's the idea prospective recruits need to get into their head.

You aren't going to be playing your guitar in CDNAviator's aircraft...and Eye In the Sky isn't going to let you either (educated guess at least!) , you won't be playing on your phone or laptop at my work, and a Platoon Commander at a FOB in some third world country has better things to do then to deal with a Pte's home sickness or financial woes.

The military really is not a bad go at all, it's the best job I've ever had, even on the stupidest possible days. If you don't think you can set aside your personal needs and life when ordered to, or you can't keep your life in check while on training or deployment, please stay home. I could get a call right now telling me to pack my bags, and I'd be fine with that. My biggest concern as a single person would be who is going to start my sports car (bought and paid for with my CF salary) while I am away. In fact, I get so bored here that I'd LOVE to get a call like that right now. Obviously it is different for older people with wives and children, but they still manage with lives that are far more complex than yours or mine.

Anyways...I don't want anyone to consider this an attack. It's just my honest opinion. If you can't put your life on hold from time to time, please refrain from wearing the Canadian flag on your shoulder. We already have enough people that try to get out of work, and that just makes it harder for the rest of us. We don't need any more.

If however, you want a career change and are willing to put the effort in, I don't think you will be let down as long as your expectations are realistic. The pay and benefits really aren't bad at all. The first year's pay isn't great since you are paying for rations and quarters, but later on you can get your own place or de-link from rations in some places, and then it starts getting good. As a Pte IPC 3 or a Cpl (especially with Spec pay) you should have no problem paying the bills and having a pretty comfortable life. Tons of people I've worked with are from Nfld, so there must be some reason they aren't back home. 

Good luck with your decision, and try to make the right one for yourself and the CF, regardless of what your choice is.

Excellent reply, you tell it like it is, and that's what I was looking to hear.

This is an important decision for me, as right now would be a good time to move into a career that is more permanent, and long term. To go from one dead end job to another just isn't working for me, and I could probably deal with the lifestyle change that comes in the beginning. Hell, I'd probably like it to be honest.

So at what stage in the game does the option of living on your own come about? And how many people do this?

[-Skeletor-]

So at what stage in the game does the option of living on your own come about? And how many people do this?

Usually it is once you are posted to a unit after your QL3/DP1 training.

Living on your own? As in moving out of the barracks?

How many people do this? Looking for an exact figure/percentage or will me saying lots of people be enough?

[NLer709B]

Usually it is once you are posted to a unit after your QL3/DP1 training.

Living on your own? As in moving out of the barracks?

How many people do this? Looking for an exact figure/percentage or will me saying lots of people be enough?

Lots of people explains well enough thanks! Thanks for the reply. It's odd because last year this time I was reeling to get on the move and get done my BMQ and whatnot, for some reason now I have been having second thoughts. All the replies in here help alot, once again, thanks.

Maybe I will call down and have another chat with my recruiter, but I have a good feeling about this.

[NLer709B]

Just to be sure I have this down right, once you enroll into the CF and get ready to go do your BMQ, you new salary is $2663 a month as a Pte (1). Correct?

Then, one year from your enroll date, you advance to Pte. (2) at $3256 a month, and 2 years after enrolling you advance to Pte. (3) at $3911 a month?

I have switched and applied for Geomatics Tech. and have my interview in a few days, and I'm looking forward to it, as I've done alot of the duties of a Geomatics Tech. through a college diploma in Natural Resource Management I done a few years ago.

So once I am in my third year and at the pay scale of Pte. (3), I would have to sit in that pay level until advancing to Cpl (1) w/ Spec. pay, which would likely occur after 48 months of service from enroll date and if I have the required QL?

Just want to be sure of this, or do you have to sit in the Pte. (1) pay increment for some time?

[Gizmo 421]

You are correct your pay would start at increment level 1 on each anniversary of your swearing in you move to the next increment level of pay until capped at your rank level. Promotion to corporal is not always a given but it is unusual to see it delayed. Some occupations have circumstances that must be met such as finishing your QL5 training (sometimes referred to as Journeyman). Specialist pay only comes into effect if your occupation is listed as a specialist pay occupation.

[NLer709B]

You are correct your pay would start at increment level 1 on each anniversary of your swearing in you move to the next increment level of pay until capped at your rank level. Promotion to corporal is not always a given but it is unusual to see it delayed. Some occupations have circumstances that must be met such as finishing your QL5 training (sometimes referred to as Journeyman). Specialist pay only comes into effect if your occupation is listed as a specialist pay occupation.

Thanks man!

[Melbatoast]

You are correct your pay would start at increment level 1 on each anniversary of your swearing in you move to the next increment level of pay until capped at your rank level. Promotion to corporal is not always a given but it is unusual to see it delayed. Some occupations have circumstances that must be met such as finishing your QL5 training (sometimes referred to as Journeyman). Specialist pay only comes into effect if your occupation is listed as a specialist pay occupation.

Incentive dates at QL5+ levels are (or can be?) tied to the anniversary of becoming QL qualified.  At least mine were/are, it might be trade dependent.  Not that it matters much, it's still a yearly raise, the exact date of which might change based on the day you get your QL.

Man I forgot how the incentive jumped at Pte 1-2...