Topic: Format of Memos

[PMedMoe]

It's always nice when someone else recognizes her too   

Hello, Pot, this is Kettle......you're black!!   

Back on the memo issue.  When I was at 427 Sqn, we had an officer whose sole purpose in life (and at work) was to "correct" memos that had been submitted.  I recall memos taking weeks just to get submitted (never mind approved) due to minor mistakes.  Thankfully, I never had to submit one.

Vern, I agree on the short leave thing.  It states at the discretion of the CO, yet we were always told we couldn't request it.   

[ballz]

What should you put for the 4 digits at the bottom of the signature block if you don't work at the base and don't share the same first 3 numbers of the phone number?

And what if the person you are addressing the memo to is in a different spot of the country (aka my SEM, which is my CoC, but who's office is not in the same province).

Can you just put your actual primary phone number at the bottom of it instead in (###) ###-#### format?

[Technoviking]

What should you put for the 4 digits at the bottom of the signature block if you don't work at the base and don't share the same first 3 numbers of the phone number?

Put your entire phone number.

And what if the person you are addressing the memo to is in a different spot of the country (aka my SEM, which is my CoC, but who's office is not in the same province).

Then that should be in a Military Letter format (I think it may be called "Letter to a Military Addressee")

Can you just put your actual primary phone number at the bottom of it instead in (###) ###-#### format?

See above.  I don't know why not.

[ballz]

Then that should be in a Military Letter format (I think it may be called "Letter to a Military Addressee")

Shat... We never learned anything about "Letter to a Military Addressee" in BMOQ

Even if it's your CoC? My CoC is my Assistant ULO then ULO then SEM. In theory I was going to hand the memo (addressed to the SEM) to the Assistant ULO and it would go up to the SEM and come back down... That *was* the plan anyway.

In reality he is coming here this Wednesday and I have an appointment with him so I was basically going to show them all at one time anyway.

[Technoviking]

Shat... We never learned anything about "Letter to a Military Addressee" in BMOQ

Even if it's your CoC? My CoC is my Assistant ULO then ULO then SEM. In theory I was going to hand the memo (addressed to the SEM) to the Assistant ULO and it would go up to the SEM and come back down... That *was* the plan anyway.

In reality he is coming here this Wednesday and I have an appointment with him so I was basically going to show them all at one time anyway.

If you are going to hand bomb it up, then yeah, make it a memorandum.

[ZipperZ]

Here is the example of the second line in my memo. "Pers (872) last 3 of service number or applicable file number from the clerk"

I am writing a memo to my section 1C. Can I just write his name and below his position?

[NFLD Sapper]

Your memo should be in the following format (see attached file),

The example attached uses a distruibution list but if you are addressing it to one person use their title/appointment.

Example: 1 Tp TC or 1 Sect Comd

EDITED TO ADD

I will try and post an example from the CFSAL Writing Guide tonight......

[MARS]

Shat... We never learned anything about "Letter to a Military Addressee" in BMOQ

You might have missed it.  It was taught to me in BOTC II (post BOTC [Chilliwack] and pre-MARS II.  it was a single day of all military correspondence - memos, letters (official and demi-official - to civilian and military addressees), messages, etc.  Just enough time to confuse us.

The example attached

Can you (should you?) not use standard abbreviations, such as 'Refs' vice 'References'?

[NFLD Sapper]

MARS that's why I am going to verify it with the CFSAL Writing Guide.

[MARS]

seen.

[Occam]

MARS that's why I am going to verify it with the CFSAL Writing Guide.

You do realize that the CFSAL Writing Guide carries no weight outside of CFSAL, right?

Until someone high enough up the food chain realizes the monumental mistake that was made when the CF-wide standard for Military Writing was tossed in the circular file, there are going to be as many standards for memos/letters/etc. as there are units in the CF.

[NFLD Sapper]

Well the memo contained within the Resource Management Support Clerk Apprentice Training Military Writing Guide seems to be the standard I have seen on on my Leadership Course, done within my Unit, sent from other units and, also done at CFSME... and it does conform to A-AD-121-CO1/FP-000 Staff and Writing Procedures.......

[CDN Aviator]

You do realize that the CFSAL Writing Guide carries no weight outside of CFSAL, right?

Carries enough weight outside of CFSAL to be used to teach Sr. NCOs on the IAEQ course........

[Occam]

Well the memo contained within the Resource Management Support Clerk Apprentice Training Military Writing Guide seems to be the standard I have seen on on my Leadership Course, done within my Unit, sent from other units and, also done at CFSME... and it does conform to A-AD-121-CO1/FP-000 Staff and Writing Procedures.......

Has anyone pointed out to the staff at CFSAL that the RMS Clerk Apprentice Training Military Writing Guide references A-AD-121-CO/FP-000, which is an obsolete document?  If you search for that pub on the DWAN, you'll arrive at a nice webpage which informs everyone that it is obsolete* and has been rescinded.

Sorry, but this is a real stick in my craw.  When the "A-AD-121-CO1/FP-000 Staff and Writing Procedures" was made obsolete, it seems that the thing to do was copy and paste the text into a new document, put a nice cover page on it which says "RMS Clerk Apprentice Training Military Writing Guide", or "XXXXXXX unit Military Writing Guide", or whatever.  Who authorized the "rebranding" of an obsolete document into something to be passed off as official?

We had a Forces-wide standard for Military Writing.  Someone, in their infinite wisdom, decided to make it obsolete, and leave nothing in its place for guidance.  Everyone's solution was to take snippets from the obsolete document, and a little of their own style, and make unit/branch/trade/school Writing Guides out of it.  So now, what we have, is no standard at all, and people getting jacked up and having memos returned to them with red pen scribbles because they wrote memos the way their last unit wanted it.  What a waste of everyone's time.

We have three volumes of QR&Os, a hockeysock full of DAODs (and growing), a whack of CFAOs that are still in effect, and God knows how many CBIs.  Surely to Christ someone can draft up a national standard for writing a bloody memo or service letter.

/rant off


*obsolete - 1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b : of a kind or style no longer current

Carries enough weight outside of CFSAL to be used to teach Sr. NCOs on the IAEQ course........

That only goes to show how quickly something which looks real pretty (but still lacks official sanction) can propagate to some units and not others, in the absence of something official.  Does it have an NDID number?  It seems to be lacking the statement that is on the front page of just about every CF publication which states "Issued on Authority of the Chief of the Defence Staff".

[NFLD Sapper]

Has anyone pointed out to the staff at CFSAL that the RMS Clerk Apprentice Training Military Writing Guide references A-AD-121-CO/FP-000, which is an obsolete document?  If you search for that pub on the DWAN, you'll arrive at a nice webpage which informs everyone that it is obsolete* and has been rescinded.

Sorry, but this is a real stick in my craw.  When the "A-AD-121-CO1/FP-000 Staff and Writing Procedures" was made obsolete, it seems that the thing to do was copy and paste the text into a new document, put a nice cover page on it which says "RMS Clerk Apprentice Training Military Writing Guide", or "XXXXXXX unit Military Writing Guide", or whatever.  Who authorized the "rebranding" of an obsolete document into something to be passed off as official?

We had a Forces-wide standard for Military Writing.  Someone, in their infinite wisdom, decided to make it obsolete, and leave nothing in its place for guidance.  Everyone's solution was to take snippets from the obsolete document, and a little of their own style, and make unit/branch/trade/school Writing Guides out of it.  So now, what we have, is no standard at all, and people getting jacked up and having memos returned to them with red pen scribbles because they wrote memos the way their last unit wanted it.  What a waste of everyone's time.

We have three volumes of QR&Os, a hockeysock full of DAODs (and growing), a whack of CFAOs that are still in effect, and God knows how many CBIs.  Surely to Christ someone can draft up a national standard for writing a bloody memo or service letter.

/rant off


*obsolete - 1 a : no longer in use or no longer useful <an obsolete word> b : of a kind or style no longer current

That only goes to show how quickly something which looks real pretty (but still lacks official sanction) can propagate to some units and not others, in the absence of something official.  Does it have an NDID number?  It seems to be lacking the statement that is on the front page of just about every CF publication which states "Issued on Authority of the Chief of the Defence Staff".

Well since you seem to be the SME on everything how about showing us the perfect example of a memo and also what you used and is it sanctioned....

[Occam]

Well since you seem to be the SME on everything how about showing us the perfect example of a memo and also what you used and is it sanctioned....

I am not the SME on everything, but I have been around long enough to see how smoothly everything worked when we had a CF-wide standard for military writing.  My JLC 17 years ago drilled all that into me.  Now, just getting a memo staffed to the CO takes at least three rewrites because everyone is using a different reference.  I'm sure everyone in the chain has better things that they would rather be doing than the old hack 'n slash with the red pen.

The next memo I write will be a release memo, and unless someone wants to get into it with me over how many blank lines go between the body and the signature block, it's going up the chain as is.

[dapaterson]

I am not the SME on everything, but I have been around long enough to see how smoothly everything worked when we had a CF-wide standard for military writing.  My JLC 17 years ago drilled all that into me.  Now, just getting a memo staffed to the CO takes at least three rewrites because everyone is using a different reference.  I'm sure everyone in the chain has better things that they would rather be doing than the old hack 'n slash with the red pen.

The next memo I write will be a release memo, and unless someone wants to get into it with me over how many blank lines go between the body and the signature block, it's going up the chain as is.

The lack of standards is a huge challenge (and not just in military writing).

And re: your release meemo.  I did see one (military) boss return a letter from a civilian subordinate, announcing they were moving to a new position, red-penned for correction.  So don`t count on it not happening (though he is now retired)...

[Celticgirl]

The next memo I write will be a release memo, and unless someone wants to get into it with me over how many blank lines go between the body and the signature block, it's going up the chain as is.

On the RMS Clk QL3, we are taught to leave 5 blank lines b/w the body and sig block.

[dangerboy]

That is what I was taught also, eons ago.  The proplem that Occam is bringing up is that since A-AD-121-CO/FP-000 does not exist means that there is no officle policy saying 5 blank sentances.  Any Comd or unit can come out with a new policy, say 7 blank sentances and there is nothing to stop him.  It is usually not a big deal as most units still follow A-AD-121-CO/FP-000 even if it does not exist, but it can be frustrating having something returned to you when you wrote it the way you were taught.

[MARS]

  Any Comd or unit can come out with a new policy,

Is there anything inherently wrong with that?  My understanding of memoranda is that they are a form of unit-level correspondence only - never addressed to anyone higher than the CO.  If something needs to leave the unit, then it is written as a letter, devoid of abbreviations and such.

So, what is precluding the CO from establishing his or her own format?  My last CO did just that.  Then he turned to me, his XO and directed me to see that it was disseminated throughout the Ship.  I should have assigned the task to a SLt - not one rank higher - but since there were none around; I did what amounted to no more than 1 hour of staff work.  I wrote a sample memo, attached an SOP, complete with screen shots of how to use the MS formatting toolbar (the CO wanted the margins changed as well), and then posted it to our server.  I then sent an email to all of the Department Heads and Departmental Chiefs with a link to the new aid memoire.  I inserted an item into ROs and posted a copy of the memo next to ROs - for those without regular IT access.  Total time: about 45 minutes.   So yeah, when the odd memo arrived on my desk for furtherance to the CO,  I took a red pen to it if required, but only because we had established and promulgated the standard for drafters to refer to.  That is all that is required: someone, at some level to promulgate some standard.  Without that very minor bit of work, then yeah, i agree with Occam - red penning a memo is bull_____.

So what if someone transfers to another unit and has to learn that oh, we are only using 4 spaces here?  Big deal.  Hence the saying in the Navy: “Different Ships, Different cap tallies.”

Cheers,

MARS

[Journeyman]

So, what is precluding the CO from establishing his or her own format? 

Must be sweet having sufficient free time to concentrate on the thorny issue of a personalized memo format   

[dapaterson]

Each unit having its own standard sort of defeats the purpose of having, oh, a standard.

Having a single standard facilitates instruction and administration.


But that is merely my (non-standrad) opinion.

[AmmoTech90]

Ideally a memo shouldn't leave a single chain of command, but what happens when it is requesting administrative action and then the member is posted.  I am sure that if the new CO is someone petty enough to worry about the format, note I say format not legibility, of a memo they would be petty enough to insist that the memo be resubmitted in "their" format.

I'm with dap and JM on this.  Either have a standard, or simply accept the fact there is no standard and instead have the concept of memo in that, if you can clear, concise, legible, submitted up the CoC correctly and not insubordinate, any form of communication could be treated as a memo.