Poll

Do you support foreign intervention in Syria?

Yes
13 (34.2%)
No
18 (47.4%)
Maybe
3 (7.9%)
Don't know
4 (10.5%)

Total Members Voted: 38

Voting closed: June 22, 2011, 13:40:08

Author Topic: Syria Superthread [merged]  (Read 37949 times)

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Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #325 on: December 15, 2011, 10:29:06 »
               From the Vancouver Sun and shared with provisions of The Copyright Act


Canada arranging 'voluntary evacuation' from Syria
Postmedia News, 15 Dec
http://www.vancouversun.com/travel/Canada+arranging+voluntary+evacuation+from+Syria/5864932/story.html

Urging Canadians to flee the volatility in Syria now before it's too late, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird on Thursday announced Canada is launching a "voluntary evacuation" to help the estimated 5,000 Canadians who are believed to be in that country.

Baird expressed concerns sanctions imposed by the Arab League on Thursday, limiting air travel, could leave Canadians trapped if they don't move quickly to flee the deteriorating situation.

"The time to leave Syria is now," he told a news conference in Ottawa.

"The writing on the wall could not be more clear."

Baird said that, as part of the voluntary evacuation, Canadian officials "will provide facilitated services to assist Canadians in preparing for their departure."

The minister also said that military involvement in Syria — such as Canada undertook during the NATO mission to Libya — is not something this country is considering.

The uprising in Syria against the regime of President Bashar al-Assad is now in its 10th month.

Syria has also imposed restrictions on the movements of Canadian diplomats in the country, Baird said.

Diane Ablonczy, the minister of State of Foreign Affairs, said Thursday that Canadians can go to the embassy in Damascus for help, go online, or call the hotline.

Expedited visas will be made available for people travelling with Canadians, Baird said.

There are about 1,500 Canadians registered as being in Syria and an estimated 5,000 believed to be there in total.

"The government is ready to provide specialized consular services to those who wish to leave," Baird explained.

"Our embassy in Damascus is also available to assist Canadians in Syria, as well as their spouses and their dependent children, with the needed travel documents, visas between now and Jan. 14, 2012.

"I must warn that should Canadians stay in Syria, we will not be able to guarantee the current service at our embassy or that commercial options to leave the country will remain available. I will end by re-iterating again, we strongly encourage Canadian citizens and their spouses and dependents to apply for travel documents now."

He added that while there are no plans at the moment to close the embassy in Syria, officials have relocated the children of embassy staff.

Canadian citizens in Syria requiring consular assistance should contact the Canadian Embassy in Damascus at 963 (11) 611-6692, 611-6851, or 611-6870, or call Foreign Affairs Canada's Emergency Operations Centre collect at 613-944-2471.

Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #326 on: December 15, 2011, 20:18:35 »
                        From BBC News and shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Syria crisis: Russia circulates surprise UN resolution
15 Dec
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16210330

Russia has circulated a UN Security Council resolution aimed at ending the crisis in Syria, in a move that surprised the Western nations.

The draft condemns the violence by both Syria's government and the opposition, but does not mention sanctions.

Western nations said the proposal was not tough enough, but that they were prepared to work on the document.

article continues at link...

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #327 on: January 15, 2012, 14:21:00 »
From CBC today:
UN tells Syrian leader to 'stop killing your people'

Finally. That ought to quiet things down.   ::)




Someone please tell me again why we even bother with League of Nations 2
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Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #328 on: January 17, 2012, 19:42:06 »
                                 Shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Russia circulates revised Syria resolution 17 Jan
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle11.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2012/January/middleeast_January454.xml&section=middleeast

Russia circulated a revised UN Security Council resolution on the violence in Syria but Western diplomats said it fell short of their demand for strong condemnation of President Bashar Assad’s crackdown on civilians.

The Security Council has been unable to agree on a resolution since the violence began in March because of deep divisions between its veto-wielding permanent members.

In October, Russia and China vetoed a West European draft resolution, backed by the U.S., that condemned Assad’s attacks and threatened sanctions.

Moscow and Beijing oppose any mention of sanctions and say Assad’s militant opponents must also be condemned, but Western nations say there can be no equivalence between the violence caused by the Syrian regime and the attacks by militant opponents of Assad.

Russia took the council by surprise in mid-December, introducing a draft resolution that called on all parties to stop the violence. It cited the ‘disproportionate use of force by Syrian authorities’ and urged the Syrian government ‘to put an end to suppression of those exercising their rights to freedom of expression, peaceful assembly and association’ but contained no threat of sanctions.

Although the Russian draft didn’t meet Western demands, the US and its European allies saw it as a potentially positive sign and submitted a series of amendments. Western nations have complained publicly and privately at Russia’s slow response in coming up with a revised text — a charge Russia’s UN Ambassador Vitaly Churkin rejected in late December.

Diplomats said the draft resolution sent to the 15 council nations Monday doesn’t appear to be a compromise.

Rather than producing new language, diplomats said, the Russians included their original text alongside most amendments proposed by other council members — but Moscow didn’t make clear whether it has accepted any changes or not.

The diplomats, speaking on condition of anonymity because the text has not been make public, said council experts would meet Tuesday afternoon to discuss the new draft.


Offline Thucydides

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #329 on: January 20, 2012, 20:48:37 »
Syria still has friends:

http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2012/01/19/tehran-and-moscow-double-down-in-syria/

Quote
Tehran and Moscow Double Down in Syria

The Syrian outlook continues to worsen.

Latest update: Russia and Iran have been caught with their hands in the Syrian cookie jar. The U.S. Treasury Department recently exposed Iran’s efforts to help Syria evade international sanctions on oil exports, while Russia was caught shipping weapons to Assad. The WSJ reports:
American officials investigating the Iranian operation said it is designed to quietly ship Syrian crude oil to Iran, where it can be sold on the international market, with revenue going back to Damascus…

This month, Cyprus intercepted a St. Petersburg-based ship, the Chariot, that was moving four containers of munitions bound for the Syrian port of Tartus, according to Cypriot officials. Cyprus eventually released the ship after assurances from its Russian owners that it wouldn’t complete the delivery, according to Cypriot officials.

But Moscow this week confirmed the arms shipment was made.

With this kind of material and financial support, Assad hopes to keep his side in the game.  Currently, the Free Syrian Army is reported to consist of just a few hundred soldiers; nor do they have the necessary equipment to fight a civil war. Meanwhile, the Syrian political opposition, mostly operating from abroad, is tentatively united, but lacks a clear plan and concrete support.

How will regional powers, like Turkey and Qatar respond? Probably by arming the opposition. If so, we can expect the conflict to grow bloodier still and the sectarian passions ripping at what is left of the fabric of Syrian society will have time to intensify.

For Syria’s sake, and the region’s, the Assad family and its closest friends need to leave.  Via Meadia likes to see murderers behind bars as much as anybody else, but under the circumstances an offer of amnesty and a reasonable cash settlement seem in the best interests of all concerned. Perhaps there are some nice empty dachas somewhere on the Black Sea.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #330 on: January 23, 2012, 09:39:30 »
They are also creating enemies.
Unlike Saleh of Yemen who seeks forgiveness and offers up apologies for his shortcomings,
Assad is gearing up for a tarring from the Saudis.
Article shared with provisions of The Copyright Act.

Pressure mounts on Syria's regime
 
Saudis pull out; Join Qatar in call for international action

 
By RICHARD SPENCER and RUTH SHERLOCK, The Daily Telegraph January 23, 2012

Saudi Arabia joined Qatar in calling for international action in Syria Sunday and announced it was pulling its members out of an Arab League monitoring mission.

The region's major oil power put new pressure on President Bashar Assad, accusing his regime of using the month-long mission to "hide its crimes."

"It is not a quality of Arab leaders to kill their people," said Prince Saud al-Faisal, the Saudi Foreign Minister.

The statement overshadowed an Arab League proposal to renew the mission for another month. Qatar called for a review of the mission possibly leading to the dispatch of Arab troops to act as peacekeepers.

Opposition groups reacted angrily to Arab League Secretary-General Nabil al-Araby's proposal, which made no mention of referring the crisis to the United Nations.

"The observers don't do anything," said Rami Shaheen, who had been jailed in the city of Dera'a, but has since managed to flee to Egypt.

"Now our revolutionaries are asking that they refer this to the UN Security Council."

Araby attacked the Assad regime, saying it had not fulfilled its promises to implement the League's peace plan. But he also said the mission was encouraging Syrians to express themselves more freely.

In Douma, clashes began on Saturday night at the funeral of Mohammed Said Maddah, a protester who had been shot.

"The criminal Assad gangs waged a surprise attack and shot at them, using machine guns, rockets and snipers as they approached the Hawwa mosque," said Omar al-Khani, of the Syrian Revolutionary Command in Damascus. "We have confirmation of dozens of casualties."

The Free Syrian Army stepped in, Khani said. Fighting broke out and spread until the army withdrew.

"The FSA managed to kill seven or eight troops and capture one officer," said an activist who claimed to have been present at the funeral.

Video from the town on Sunday showed armed FSA rebels patrolling openly.

Douma is the second town in the vicinity of Damascus to have declared itself free of government control, after Zabadani.

"He is losing his forces, that is apparent. He is getting weaker day by day. More frequently now the leaders of the troops run away," said an activist in Douma.

The Arab League argues that the regime is softening its stance because of the monitors' presence.

The regime may have been keen to avoid the fighting that would be necessary to reclaim the two towns while the League decided on its next steps.

A majority of Arab states, including Tunisia and Egypt, fear that international action might trigger further violence.

However, Saudi Arabia's political clout and Qatar's growing assertiveness mean that those hoping for continued engagement with the Assad regime are holding an ever thinner line.


Photo:
Saudi Prince Saud al-Faisal opposes the Arab League plan.
Photograph by: KHALED DESOUKI AFP, GETTY IMAGES, The Daily Telegraph



Offline GAP

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #331 on: January 23, 2012, 22:33:27 »
Russia closes deal on $550 million worth of warplanes for Syria

Russia has remained a staunch supporter of Syria's President Assad, blocking UN efforts to impose an international arms embargo.

By Fred Weir, Correspondent / January 23, 2012
 Article Link
 
Russia has closed a contract to sell half-a-billion dollars worth of warplanes to Syria, just the latest sign that Moscow intends to carry on business-as-usual with the embattled regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

According to the Moscow business daily Kommersant, the $550 million contract to purchase 36 Yak-130 Mitten combat trainers was signed in December, even as the 11-month-old uprising against four decades of rule by the Assad family was gathering steam and turning very bloody. According to United Nations estimates, more than 5,400 people have died since March, when the uprising began.

Russian foreign minister Sergei Lavrov last week dismissed any questions about Russian arms sales to Syria by saying "we don't consider it necessary to explain ourselves or justify ourselves, because we are not violating any international agreements or any [UN] Security Council resolutions."

The European Union approved an arms embargo on Syria last year. The UN Security Council has sought to do the same, but has been blocked by Russia, which has veto power.
More on link
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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #332 on: January 29, 2012, 14:09:03 »
Assad's forces are trying to retake the Ghouta district, a suburb of Damascus.Two thousand troops backed by armor went in at dawn. The revolution is getting closer to the regime every week.

Offline Tiamo

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #333 on: January 30, 2012, 10:35:32 »
Assad's forces are trying to retake the Ghouta district, a suburb of Damascus.Two thousand troops backed by armor went in at dawn. The revolution is getting closer to the regime every week.
There is continued fighting in the Ghotta district. Yesterday Al-Arabiya and several news outlets had reported Damascus airport was shutdown and the main highway linking Damascus to the airport was heavily fortified by Al-Assad army. Today, the neighbourhood of Saqba in the suburb of Damascus is still in the hands of the FSA (Free Syrian Army). There are reports that the FSA continues to hold ground in the Ghoutta district despite Al-Assad army entering that district.

Fighting is also intensifying in the Deir Zour - eastern city of Syria, Rastan near the restive city of Homs.
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Offline jollyjacktar

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #334 on: January 30, 2012, 16:36:28 »
Assaud's wife was supposedly stopped trying to get to the airport with her children and was turned around by rebel forces.  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2093479/Assads-British-born-wife-children-caught-trying-flee-Damascus-Syrian-rebels-blow-key-gas-pipeline.html
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #335 on: January 30, 2012, 19:07:10 »
Sadly, there isn't much hope for more than a stalemate right now, and time is not on the side of the revolution:

http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin/2012/01/29/why-syrias-regime-is-surviving-a-revolution/?print=1

Quote
Why Syria’s Regime Is Surviving a Revolution

Posted By Barry Rubin On January 29, 2012 @ 4:42 pm In Uncategorized | 28 Comments

Despite what is now the longest-running revolution in Middle Eastern history, the Syrian regime will probably be in power on December 31, 2012. I don’t say that because it’s what I want to happen — Syria’s revolution is more democratic-minded than those in Libya or Egypt; the government is far more repressive than the former dictatorships in Tunisia or Egypt — but because it seems inevitable.

Why is it that, after so many months of massive demonstrations and really bloody repression, President Bashar al-Assad seems likely to survive? Of course no one knows what will happen, but there are three reasons to think that Assad’s regime is surviving, though the cost of that will be a great deal of suffering and the wrecking of the country.

First, the rulers know that it is a case of kill or be killed. Given the hated and sectarian nature of the regime — overwhelmingly dominated by Alawites who comprise only about 12 percent of the population — the elite can expect no mercy if it falls. At least, the Alawite elite and its closest allies among the Sunni Arab Muslims will lose their wealth and power; at most, they and even their families will lose their lives.

A negotiated solution of any sort is not a real possibility and the elite’s members — including army generals — are aware that they must all hang together or they will all hang separately. When they look at Egypt, where they see the former president on trial and the armed forces under serious challenge, they are not encouraged to believe they should compromise with the opposition. And when they saw the former leaders of Iraq and Libya executed, that conclusion is reinforced.

Second, the revolutionaries don’t have a strategy for seizing state power. Daily they hold courageous demonstrations and suffer severe losses through killings and repression, yet the protests cannot force a determined dictatorship out of power. As in Iran — but not as in Egypt and Tunisia, where the armies were unwilling to mow down their own people — the regime’s ruthlessness makes it quite willing to pursue a strategy of brutality.

The Free Syrian Army is the opposition’s other potential route to power. But it remains too small, too inexperienced (many or most of its recruits are not former soldiers), and too lacking in international support to overthrow the dictatorship by force.

Third, the Syrian dictatorship is receiving ample international support, mainly from Iran but also from Russia. While the Arab League has supposedly come out against the regime, its intervention is so toothless and time-wasting that it serves the regime: as long as the League doesn’t call for tougher measures, neither will Western countries.

The lack of Western intervention is another international problem for the opposition and advantage for the regime. At present, the opposition has two main requests, drawn from experience in Iraq and Libya. It asks that the West impose a no-fly zone on the Syrian military and that it help establish an exclusion area along the Turkey-Syria frontier where refugees and dissidents can flee, an opposition government can create a liberated zone, and the Free Syrian Army can mobilize.

There does not appear to be the slightest chance of this happening. Why? I almost wish that I could say it was due to Western fear of an Islamist takeover of Syria. In fact, however, the U.S. government has actually helped the Islamists there. The real reason is fear of making another Middle East commitment, along with a strange radical ideology in the West which makes it more eager to help anti-Western forces than friendly ones.

Obviously, no one could seriously propose sending Western forces to Syria. Yet enforcing a no-flight zone would be a relatively easy, low-cost effort that might help break the regime that has been the main Arab sponsor of terrorism (always exceeding Iraq in that respect) during the last forty years, and also the Arab government that has done the most to sabotage any Arab-Israeli negotiated settlement. Again though, there isn’t any chance of this happening, certainly not under an Obama administration. Indeed, Russia is selling Syria advanced warplanes so the regime can attack the opposition more effectively! So much for a no-fly zone.

What might break President Bashar al-Assad’s regime? Other than his being assassinated, the only likely development would be if some Syrian generals decided that the rest of the elite can only survive by eliminating him and his family. Even then, though, they would probably try to continue the regime under a different name, offering the opposition a face-saving compromise of making some concessions in exchange for an end to the revolt. This is an offer the opposition, unless it is really desperate by that point, might well reject as insufficient.

Nevertheless, the prospects are quite likely that Assad will be in power when the year ends. If the deadlock goes on without apparent end, the revolution might die down as it did in Iran. Syria will then be another case to show that revolutions usually succeed only when the elite is divided and loses its nerve, rather than being an inevitably victorious response to oppression.

It will also show that in the Middle East only pro-Western regimes (including the temporarily “cooperative” Libyan dictatorship) get overthrown. In contrast, anti-Western governments prosper, often with Western protection or help. Go figure.

Article printed from Rubin Reports: http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin

URL to article: http://pjmedia.com/barryrubin/2012/01/29/why-syrias-regime-is-surviving-a-revolution/

Thinl back to the 2009-2010 Green Revolution, when tens of thousands of Iranians were protesting in the streets. The reason their signs were in English was their hope that the US Administration would provide some sort of support, but no help was forthcoming then, and the Syrians know no help is coming now.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Tiamo

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #336 on: January 31, 2012, 00:17:35 »
Quote
Thinl back to the 2009-2010 Green Revolution, when tens of thousands of Iranians were protesting in the streets. The reason their signs were in English was their hope that the US Administration would provide some sort of support, but no help was forthcoming then, and the Syrians know no help is coming now.

Initially I used to think the same way, however, the situation on the ground had changed so drastically that the resemblance with the Iranian Green Revolution is not plausible. The Green Revolution did not evolve into an urban warfare with small, yet determined, soldiers securing whole neighbourhoods and even cities.

Few things to consider when constructing scenarios for how things will progress in Syria:

a) Corruption is rooted deep in the Syrian regime.  A clear example is how for 8 or so months, the FSA (Free Syrian Army) continues to arm itself.  Another example, many of the brutal videos that showed Assad militiamen torturning and abusing civilians were bought off the person who recorded them. Anything and everything is up for sale.
 
b) The majority of the population is against the Assad regime. This creates an atmosphere friendly for the opposition and FSA.

c) Economic sanctions are hitting the regime hard. The move to cut off the Syrian regime economically and swiftly has accelerated the deterioration of the regime. Yes, Iran and Russia can still provide support, but the Syrian Lira had dropped 50% in value in the past 3 months. Inflation is running rapid and energy supplies are scarce.

d) The pressure is increasing on the regime both internally and externally. The FSA though small in number have been able to penetrate Damascus to the level they've secured whole neighbourhoods as close as 20 minutes from the presidential palace. This is significant because not until recently, the FSA was limited to the mountain areas and Homs province.  Try to imagine the thoughts in Bashar Al-Assad's head when he hears the shelling and gunfire in his own comfortable palace while everyone around falsely assures him everything is under control.

I doubt Bashar Al-Assad will survive for 3 more months, but his regime and the security state his father had founded may still exist after he is gone. This will all depend on who blinks first, the regime or the people. Though everyone knows the Assad regime has not ran out of options. Until now, heavy weaponry and airplanes have not been used (Lessons learned from Libya perhaps).
"Ignorance is a regrettable Disease", Anonymous
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Offline 57Chevy

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #337 on: February 05, 2012, 10:24:03 »
                                          Article shared with provisions of The Copyright Act

Mideast officials slam UN, urge diplomatic break with Syria
Agence France-Presse February 5, 2012
http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Mideast+officials+slam+over+Syria/6104634/story.html#ixzz1lWNdB5dR


MUNICH, Germany — Arab leaders and officials attacked the UN Sunday after Russia and China blocked a resolution condemning the Damascus regime, as Tunisia urged the world to cut diplomatic ties with Syria.

Tunisian Prime Minister Hamadi Jebali said Moscow and Beijing's actions showed the veto system of the Security Council was flawed and said the two countries had "misused" their right to block the resolution against Syria.

"Undoubtedly the international community has to reconsider this mechanism of decision taking," said Jebali.

Turkey's foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, said that "Cold War" logic had prevailed in the Security Council and that Russia and China "did not vote on existing realities."

On Saturday, Russia and China employed their veto to block a UN resolution against Syria that aimed to end violence there after one of the bloodiest weekends since the uprising against President Bashar al-Assad erupted about 11 months ago.

Militants said more than 230 civilians perished under bombardment by Syrian forces in the city of Homs overnight Friday.

Egypt's foreign minister, Mohamed Amr, said the Arab League would convene in Cairo on Saturday and "evaluate" the situation following the Security Council vote.

"Bloodshed has to stop. This is a tragedy that cannot be allowed to continue in our midst," he said.

The criticism was not limited to politicians, with the director of Human Rights Watch, Kenneth Roth, saying the veto had rendered the United Nations "irrelevant".

Jebali said that in the absence of strong UN action, countries should take their own action by cutting all diplomatic ties with Damascus, as Tunisia has already done.

"We have to expel Syrian ambassadors from Arab and other countries," the prime minister said.

"The Syrian people do not expect from us today long statements . . . they are expecting deeds, they are expecting concrete measures . . . the very least we can do is to cut all relations to the Syria regime," he added.

Qatari minister of state for foreign affairs, Khalid Mohamed al-Attiyah, described Saturday as a "sad day".
He said Russia and China's move was a "bad signal to Assad that gives a license to kill, full stop."

Speaking at the same event, Yemeni Nobel peace laureate Tawakkul Karman also called on the international community to expel Syrian ambassadors from their countries and recall diplomats in the wake of the violence there.

"I urge you in the name of the peaceful rebels to expel Syrian ambassadors from your countries and I urge you to call back your ambassadors in Damascus," Karman said.

With their veto, China and Russia "bear the moral and human responsibility for these massacres," she said.

U.S. independent Senator Joe Lieberman said that with their actions, China and Russia were "on the wrong side of history" and they could find themselves as isolated as Assad if they refused to budge.

The United States should look at providing weapons and other aid to Syrian rebels if Russia and China refuse to reconsider, said Lieberman.

"We have a range of support we can give them," he told the panel.

"Some of it is non-lethal, including medical supplies . . . and then ultimately it is providing them with weapons," said the senator.




Offline WRC559

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Re: Syria
« Reply #338 on: February 06, 2012, 05:11:14 »
Hmmm.....a collection of workshops, empty barracks, and some logistic assets intended to support the Russian Mediterranean Squadron -- which was disbanded in 1991.

Yep, that's a pretty compelling reason to believe armageddon is on the horizon.  :pop:



Edit to add: While I regret giving the tinfoil-hat wackjob "wrc559" any further attention, citing his website as a source for anything (other than to chuckle at conspiracy theorists) speaks volumes about one's "reason."  ::)

Not a problem mate, We will be looking out for you too.
us "Tin Foil Hat" wearers are pretty scary to be around, especially while the SUPERbowl is on. (We are all entitled to our own opinions) So we hope you enjoy the information we share at WRC559.com and that you can benefit from some information there.

All the best!
WRC559

Offline WRC559

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Re: Syria
« Reply #339 on: February 06, 2012, 05:14:57 »
lol. yeah, maybe i was starting to believe in the conspiracy a little too much about a WW3.
i cant help but think its possible tho. with iran and syria being very close allies also having ties to russia, turkey and saudi want to intervene, backed by nato, israel / rest of the arab nations likley to get involved. who knows what will happen.


im continually following the news in syria.

You my friend, are on the path to success, when we talk of WW3, Why are we classified as Conspiracy theorists. When your american media tells you that the economy is fine, Giving you nothing but false information why are they not discredited. When the Conspiracy theorists have many theories that have been correct, are still put down.. Oh its because we are all trained to follow the crowed. Perhaps remember, Nothing is more powerful then the ability to think for ones self.


ALL THE BEST
WRC559

Offline Tiamo

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #340 on: February 06, 2012, 21:20:50 »
Source: BBC News Journalist Paul Wood - on the ground from Homs: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16912756

Quote
Mortars began to fall, steadily, a few minutes after 06:00. Each blast echoed around the narrow streets.

At first, that caused defiant cries of "God is great". But then heavy artillery was used; then airburst bombs.

Now this part of Homs appears deserted. There are no voices outside, only the din of shells coming in and exploding.

Occasionally a frightened resident peers quickly out of a window before disappearing.

"There is rubble in everywhere," said a local cameraman, running back inside, breathless, a moment ago. "Power lines are down. There is not a single person on the street."

Under the constant shell-fire, people were becoming slightly hysterical: The army was "about to attack with chemical weapons"; The army was "already invading with ground troops".

Neither was true, though one credible eyewitness said he had seen troops moving up to the edge of this area.

The security forces seem to be about one kilometre away. There is no invasion yet - and perhaps there won't be one - but that is what people fear and expect.
No safe place

In the first hour or so, we heard a lot of gunfire from rebel fighters of the Free Syria Army. It was a futile gesture - Kalashnikovs against artillery.

Now their commanders have given an order for ammunition to be preserved. It will be used later, either to counter-attack or if the regime's forces enter, they say.
Continue reading the main story

Opposition activists have counted more than 25 dead in Homs so far on Monday (though there is no independent confirmation of that figure). The houses here don't have basements. There is nowhere safe to hide.

Syrian state television denied that there had been any bombardment. It said residents were setting fire to piles of rubbish on the roofs of their homes to trick the world into thinking that there was an attack.

There is no doubt, however, from what we have seen and heard, that hundreds of shells and mortars have been fired at this place during the day.

As I write this, the windows of the house we are in are still reverberating from the impact of a shell, probably in the next street.

It is true that people have been setting fire to rubbish in the streets. They believe it will confuse the guidance systems of rockets apparently being fired at them. They are probably mistaken.

People in this part of Homs say these are the worst days they have known since the beginning of the uprising, almost a year ago. The bombing has been going on for several days now.

Most of the casualties we have seen were civilians. We were at a field clinic on Sunday during a mortar attack lasting several hours. A teenaged boy was brought in with horrific injuries, most of his face gone.

In the corridor, a woman was screaming. Her only son had just been brought in on a stretcher, his left foot severed by the blast. She was hysterical, but not incoherent. "Give us guns, we cannot defend ourselves," she shouted, before someone led her away.
Continue reading the main story


It is also true that some of the dead are fighters. We went to the prayers for one on Sunday, a member of the Free Army, as the rebels call themselves. His body was laid on the carpeted floor of the mosque, flowers on his chest. Two men - perhaps brothers - knelt over him, kissing his forehead, and weeping.

The man had died a couple of hours earlier while attacking a government base said to be used by snipers.

The regime accuses the Free Army - "terrorists" or "armed gangs" in the language of official spokesmen - of causing most of the violence.

I put that to the Free Army commander in this part of Homs.

"No," said Captain Mohammed Idris, who defected from the regime's army only in December. "Everything we do is to defend our people. The regime can't get to us - so it retaliates against civilians instead."
Little dignity

Civilians are certainly paying the price. In the field clinic, a man was carefully wrapping the body of a seven-year-old girl in a white sheet. She had been killed when a mortar fell on her home. They wrote her name on the shroud, Nuha al Manal.

Like all the dead in this part of Homs, she was buried in darkness. They have been doing that here for many months; daytime is too dangerous. In the pitch black, a volunteer ran across the graveyard carrying her body.

There was no family; no prayers, and little dignity, just a hurried burial. Even as they covered her body with earth, there were shots fired in their direction.

"The UN abandoned us," one Homs resident told me. "Who's going to help us now, who's going to help us now?"

People said that to me over and over; that they felt abandoned, alone.

After the failure of the vote in the UN Security Council at the weekend, they have lost hope that the outside world will help.

They expect the worst from a regime they fear can now act without restraint.
"Ignorance is a regrettable Disease", Anonymous
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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #341 on: February 06, 2012, 21:40:22 »
A couple of new Canadian tidbits....
Quote
The official Opposition wants Canada's ambassador recalled from Syria, but the government says he will stay in the besieged country to blast President Bashar Assad for his attacks on domestic dissenters.

NDP foreign affairs critic Helene Laverdiere urged the government to recall the envoy because she said it would send a strong message to Assad, who has waged a bloody 11-month crackdown on dissent in his country that has left thousands dead.

A Syrian military offensive against people in the city of Homs has entered its third straight day.

The Obama administration closed the U.S. embassy in Damascus on Monday and recalled all diplomatic staff. Britain recalled its ambassador to Syria and expressed its disgust over the situation.

"It's not a question of cutting diplomatic ties completely," Laverdiere said Monday. "Our position does not go as far as that of the United States."

Chris Day, spokesman for Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird, indicated that Canada had no plans at this time to further draw down its diplomatic staff after calling home several diplomats last week.

Canada reduced its staff to "core personnel only" but kept Ambassador Glenn Davidson at his post, with a small skeleton staff ....
The Canadian Press, 6 Feb 12

Quote
Canada will raise China and Russia’s “deeply disappointing” decision to veto the condemnation of the Syrian government’s crackdown on civilian protests during this week’s trade mission, Canadian officials said Sunday.

Deepak Obhrai, parliamentary secretary to the minister of foreign affairs, told CBC News that Canada would pursue “diplomatic efforts” with China and Russia.

"We will be talking to the Chinese and to the Russians, and explaining to them our view, as to why their veto is wrong," Obhrai said Sunday.

On Saturday, China joined Russia to veto the United Nations Security Council’s move for a tougher response to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s regime. Thirteen countries voted for the resolution drafted by Arab and European nations which would have given strong backing to an Arab League plan to end the crisis in Syria.

Chris Day, Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird’s spokesman, told Postmedia News that discussions regarding the region will take place on the trip to the middle kingdom.

“We will discuss a range of global issues with our hosts, including the situation in the Middle East,” Day said ....
Postmedia News, 6 Feb 12
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Offline exabedtech

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #342 on: February 06, 2012, 21:54:42 »
Oh yes!  It sure would send a STRONG message.  I expect that if we closed our embassy, peace would break out immediately and they'd open a McDonalds on every street corner.  :sarcasm: 
Just my opinion... but I'd think that if you're after a diplomatic solution, you may want to have the odd diplomat handy.

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #343 on: February 06, 2012, 22:37:00 »
Syria's most senior defector: Assad's army is close to collapse
Bashar al-Assad's army is close to a collapse that could plunge the Middle East into a "nuclear reaction", its most senior defector has told The Sunday Telegraph.
 Article Link
 By Richard Spencer, Middle East Correspondent 05 Feb 2012

In his first full-length newspaper interview, General Mustafa al-Sheikh, who has taken refuge in Turkey, gave an apocalyptic insider's view of the state of the regime – despite its attempt to reassert control this weekend.

He said only a third of the army was at combat readiness due to defections or absenteeism, while remaining troops were demoralised, most of its Sunni officers had fled, been arrested, or sidelined, and its equipment was degraded.

"The situation is now very dangerous and threatens to explode across the whole region, like a nuclear reaction," he said.

The failure of President Assad to keep a tight grip even on the towns and suburbs around Damascus, some of which have driven out the army for periods in recent weeks, has led to a reassessment of his forces' unity.

When Gen Sheikh fled over the border from his town in the north of the country in the second half of November, he thought the army could hold out against a vastly outnumbered opposition for a year or more. Now, he said, attacks by the rebels' Free Syrian Army were escalating as the rank and file withered away due to lack of belief in the cause.
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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #344 on: February 06, 2012, 23:22:09 »
I'd say it's totally up to the Arab League to put together a coalition, amongst themselves, and go in and sort it. They have the men and equipment. It's about time they took care of their own problems.
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." 2007 winning entry, Texas A&M University - most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #345 on: February 08, 2012, 17:29:20 »
I'd say it's totally up to the Arab League to put together a coalition, amongst themselves, and go in and sort it. They have the men and equipment. It's about time they took care of their own problems.

Sure, but who is gonna back them up? The Syrians themselves can oust the regime without the need for NATO or US to intervene. If the West or even Arabs just provide the logistics for the people on the ground, the Assad regime will not last for long.

You see all these nations coming up on TV claiming they support the protestors? They are just talk. Turkey does not even allow the delivery of medical supplies to Syria, the same thing with Jordan. Lebanon and Iraq are on the side of the Assad regime.
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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #346 on: February 12, 2012, 13:41:00 »
Now the Arab League wants a UN peacekeeping force, according to this report which is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/arab-league-calls-for-un-joint-peacekeeping-in-syria/article2335441/
Quote
Arab League calls for UN joint peacekeeping in Syria

HAMZA HENDAWI

Cairo— The Associated Press
Published Sunday, Feb. 12, 2012


The Arab League will call Sunday for the U.N. Security Council to create a joint peacekeeping force for Syria, the latest effort by the regional group to end the 11-month old crisis that has killed more than 5,000 people.

The new effort is spelled out in a draft resolution obtained by The Associated Press and expected to be adopted by League foreign ministers meeting in Cairo. However, Syria is unlikely to accept a joint U.N.-Arab League peacekeeping force.

Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister Saud Al-Faisal conveyed the League's frustration with Syria by telling delegates it was no longer appropriate for the league to stand by and watch the bloodshed in Syria.

“Until when will we remain spectators?” he said. “It is a disgrace for us as Muslims and Arabs to accept” the bloodshed in Syria, he said.

The Arab League has been at the forefront of regional efforts to end 11 months of bloodshed in Syria. The group put forward a plan that President Bashar al-Assad agreed to in December, then sent in monitors to check whether the Syrian regime was complying. But when it became clear that Mr. al-Assad's regime was flouting the terms of the agreement and killings went on, the League pulled the observers out last month.

The draft resolution calls for an immediate cease-fire in Syria and demands regime forces lift the siege on neighborhoods and villages and pull troops and their heavy weapons back to their barracks.

It urges Syrian opposition groups to unite ahead of a Feb. 24 meeting in Tunisia of the “Friends of Syria” group,” which includes the United States, its European allies and Arab nations working to end the uprising against Assad's authoritarian rule.

The creation of the group came after last weekend's veto at the U.N. by Russia and China of a Western and Arab draft resolution that would have pressured Mr. al-Assad to step down. That resolution also would have demanded that Mr. al-Assad halt the crackdown on dissent and implement the Arab League peace plan that calls for him to hand over power to his vice president and allow creation of a unity government to clear the way for elections.

The League also wants to provide the opposition groups with political and material support. It calls for a halt to all diplomatic contacts with Syria and for referring officials responsible for crimes against the Syrian people to international criminal tribunals. It urges a tightening of trade sanctions previously adopted by the League but not been fully implemented.

The group meeting in Cairo was also considering a proposal to expel Syrian ambassadors from Arab capitals.

The League officials said the group would also call on Syrian opposition groups to close ranks and unite under one umbrella, a move that they said would place more pressure on the al-Assad regime.

Washington piled more pressure on Syria.

President Barack Obama's Chief of Staff Jacob Lew said it was only a matter of time before Assad's regime collapsed.

“The brutality of the Assad regime is unacceptable and has to end,” he told “Fox News Sunday.” The U.S. is pursuing “all avenues that we can” and that “there is no question that this regime will come to an end. The only question is when,” he said.

Late Saturday, al-Qaeda chief Ayman al-Zawahri threw the terror network's support behind Syrian rebels trying to topple President Bashar al-Assad, raising fears that Islamic extremists are exploiting the uprising that began peacefully but is quickly transforming into an armed insurgency. The regime has long blamed terrorists for the revolt, and al-Qaeda's endorsement creates new difficulties for Western and Arab states trying to figure out a way to help force Mr. al-Assad out of power.

“The time has come for a decisive action to stop the bloodshed suffered by the Syrian people since the start of last year,” Arab League chief Nabil Elaraby told the Arab foreign ministers. “We must move quickly in all directions ... to end the cycle of violence in Syria.”

Foreign ministers from the Gulf Cooperation Council — Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar and Bahrain — are also proposing the expulsion of Syrian ambassadors from all Arab League nations during the meeting in Cairo. The GCC ministers also proposed that Arab nations withdraw their ambassadors from Damascus, according to the officials.

The six nations, particularly Saudi Arabia and Qatar, have been campaigning for a tougher stand against Assad's regime and may offer formal recognition of the National Syrian Council, the largest of Syria's opposition groups, at Sunday's meeting.

Mr. al-Assad's regime has pursued a harsh crackdown against the uprising since it began last March. The U.N. estimates that 5,400 people have been killed since March, but that figure is from January, when the world body stopped counting because the chaos in Syria has made it all but impossible to check the figures. Hundreds are reported to have been killed since.

Arab League officials said that Mr. Elaraby has accepted the resignation of General Mohammed Ahmed Al-Dabi, the head of the Syrian observer mission, and nominated former Jordanian Foreign Minister Abdul-Illah al-Khatib as the new envoy. A decision on Mr. al-Khatib's nomination would be made later in the day by Arab foreign ministers meeting in the Egyptian capital.

There was no word on the reasons behind Mr. al-Dabi's resignation, but the Sudanese general was harshly criticized for his management of the monitors mission, which was perceived by the Syrian opposition and many protesters to have provided a cover for the regime's continued crackdown.

Mr. Al-Dabi was also criticized for being a longtime aide of Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir, himself indicted by the Hague-based International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity in Sudan's western Darfur region, where a revolt against the Khartoum government began in 2003 but has petered out about five years later.

“The new mission must be totally different from the previous one,” Mr. Elaraby told the foreign ministers as he proposed a joint Arab League-U.N. mission to Syria. “The previous experience has shown that there can be no restoration of security without a political vision.”

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject and also because the proposals have not yet been adopted.


I am curious ... what peace is there to keep? Or, perhaps, the Arab League wants a peacemaking force - one that will give Assad the boot and install a government that is more favourable to Saudi and Egyptian interests, one which is, therefore, less favourable to Iran and Russia.

Give the Russian and Chinese vetos - both likely for two different reasons - the force, if there is to be one, will have to be created in the UN General Assembly using the "Acheson Plan," the "uniting for peace" resolution mechanism. Since neither Russia nor China is likely to support such a mission the force, if it is created, will appear to be more US meddling in the Arabs' internal affairs and we all know how well that will go down on the "Arab street."

On the other hand, a Western-Arab force created by a "uniting for peace" resolution might be the straw that breaks the Iranian camel's back and it could plunge the whole region into a nice, long, bloody, internecine (and, ultimately useful) war which might even push Pakistan into another war with India. For those who think that both the Middle East and India/Pakistan disputes have been at stalemate for too long this is not necessarily an unwelcome prospect - except that it will mess up the stock markets.
 
It is ill that men should kill one another in seditions, tumults and wars; but it is worse to bring nations to such misery, weakness and baseness as to have neither strength nor courage to contend for anything; to have nothing left worth defending and to give the name of peace to desolation.
Algernon Sidney in Discourses Concernign Government, (1698)
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Offline GAP

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #347 on: February 12, 2012, 13:51:34 »
I keep getting the impression that the Arabs are fearfull that Assad will prevail simply by killing off most of the opposition, much like his father did.
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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #348 on: February 12, 2012, 18:39:16 »
Documents proving Iranian money flowing to the Syrian regime:
Source: Haaretz http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/haaretz-exclusive-syria-documents-show-iran-helping-assad-to-sidestep-sanctions-1.412353
Quote
Iran has been helping Syria bypass the international sanctions imposed on it for massacring civilians, according to documents from the Syrian president's office obtained by Haaretz.

The documents show that Iran has given the Syrian regime more than $1 billion, which would help it overcome the oil embargo and other moves including restrictions on flights and sanctions against the central bank.
Ahmadinejad, Assad    

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his Syrian counterpart Bashar Assad
Photo by: AP



The documents were leaked following a cyber-attack by hackers known as Anonymous against the e-mail server of the Syrian president's office. Seventy-eight employees in President Bashar Assad's office had their e-mail hacked. One of these accounts belonged to the minister of presidential affairs, Mansour Azzam; it included two documents signed by him that dealt with relations between Syria and Iran.
Syria document - 12022012    



What are your thoughts on this issue? Follow Haaretz.com on Facebook and share your views.

The two documents were authored two months ago and detail discussions by senior Iranian delegations visiting Syria. The documents are written in ambiguous language and only in a number of places do they detail ways Syria would be aided to bypass sanctions. The document repeatedly refers to Syria's wish to "learn from the Iranian experience in this area."

The United States, Turkey, the European Union, the Arab League and other countries have imposed severe sanctions on Syria due to the regime's attacks on civilians. As part of the sanctions, all Arab League members have ceased contact with the Central Bank of Syria, and commercial flights from Arab countries to and from Syria have stopped. The European Union has imposed an oil embargo on Syria.

Around 20 percent of Syria's gross domestic product derives from oil sales, with 90 percent of Syrian oil being exported to the EU.

On December 8, Azzam sent Assad and other senior figures a document entitled "Memo on the visit of the Iranian delegation to Syria." The delegation included 10 senior members of the office of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and representatives of the Central Bank of Iran and other Iranian ministries. The delegation met with Syrian Prime Minister Adel Safar, the head of the Syrian central bank, and the ministers of finance, trade and oil.

As a result of the disturbances around the country and the sanctions, the Syrian regime is undergoing an economic crisis. The regime needs revenue, in part to pay the armed forces and the gangs of thugs - the Shabiha - it uses against the demonstrators. It also needs to pay the salaries of the tens of thousands of officials whose loyalty is vital.

According to the document authored by Azzam, the Iranian delegation announced that it has allocated $1 billion so Iran could buy basic supplies from Syria. Most of the items are very basic and include meat, poultry, olive oil and fruit. It is unclear if Iran actually needs these items or if this is a way to pump up the Syrian economy.

In parallel, the Iranians agreed to export to Syria fertilizer and raw materials for the petrochemical industry; it would spread out payments over a long period.

The Iranian delegations also discussed ways the Syrians could bypass the embargo on oil exports. The Iranians, who have large petroleum deposits, promised to examine the purchase of 150,000 barrels of oil from Syria per day for a year "to use it domestically or resell it to others." This way Syria would be able to continue to export oil despite the sanctions.

In return, Iran would supply Syria spare parts for the petroleum industry that are hard to come by due to the sanctions.

The document also shows that the two countries discussed ways to bypass sanctions on flights and air cargo. Turkey, for example, has closed its airspace to aircraft traveling to or from Syria, and most Syrian flights cannot land in most airports in Europe and the Arab world.

One option discussed is the creation of a hub in Iran for Syrian aircraft, bypassing the current hub in the United Arab Emirates. The Iranians also offered to service Syrian Air's planes.

The Iranians also proposed the creation of an air-and-ground corridor for transferring goods to and from Iran. This would be done through Iraq, bypassing Turkey.

As for banking, they discussed setting up a joint bank for transferring money through Russia and China, which are not taking part in the international sanctions against Syria and Iran.

"Iran has promised to relay to Syria its know-how on ways for transferring funds from the country abroad and back, based on the experience Iran has accumulated in this field," it says.

The second document, dated December 14, 2011, states that "the central banks of Syria and Iran agreed to use banks in Russia and China to ease the transfer of funds between the two countries, in view of the current conditions in Syria and Iran."
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That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians", Harry S. Truman

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Re: Syria Superthread [merged]
« Reply #349 on: February 14, 2012, 17:00:13 »
Arab states agree to provide guns to Syria rebels, may begin true civil war
Reuters  Feb 14, 2012
Article Link
 
AIRO — After a bruising meeting in a five-star Cairo hotel, Arab foreign ministers led by Gulf states hinted to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad that unless he halts his violent crackdown, some Arab League members might arm his opponents.

The message was folded into Article 9 of a League resolution passed on Sunday that urges Arabs to “provide all kinds of political and material support” to the opposition, a phrase that includes the possibility of giving weapons to Assad’s foes. Diplomats at the meeting confirmed this interpretation.

The resolution came as Syria’s army killed at least six civilians Tuesday in the heaviest shelling of Homs for several days and as the international community warned of a humanitarian disaster in the city.

The top human rights representative at the United Nations said the world body’s inaction had “emboldened” Syria’s government to unleash overwhelming force against its own civilians.

“The failure of the Security Council to agree on firm collective action appears to have emboldened the Syrian government to launch an all-out assault in an effort to crush dissent with overwhelming force,” said Navi Pillay, High Commissioner for Human Rights.

The assault has been heaviest in the central city of Homs, which has been under a relentless barrage of heavy machinegun fire, tank shells, mortars and rocket-propelled grenades for 10 days.
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REMEMBER SOME PEOPLE ARE ALIVE SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS ILLEGAL TO SHOOT THEM

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I´m not so sure about the universe

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.