Topic: 'It's time to consolidate NDHQ' & 'DND to take-over Nortel Campus' (Merged threads)

[Lone Wolf AT]

Hey may not answer since that post is 2004 and he is a "Guest"

[TCBF]

I find it amusing that a lot of these opinions come from civvies, ppl in the recruiting process, or ppl who have never served here at NDHQ. 

- Kind of like all of the other threads on this site.  We all often discuss places we have never been and things we have never done.  Ahhhh.....  the glory of the Internet.talk abou

[TCBF]

Hey may not answer since that post is 2004 and he is a "Guest"

- Then how did my post from yesterday.... is this a merged thread??!!!???

[N. McKay]

That is too bad, because there is a lot to be gained from putting it all under one roof.  At the very least, the Army could look to ensure those scattered elements of the Land Staff get brought into the national capitol region:

So, to sum up what has happened over the last 40 years: in trying to create a more efficient organization in which everyone is under the same roof and you don't have to walk the length of a city block to get anything done, we have instead created one that is too big to fit under any existing roof and is now at least as dispersed as the original three Service headquarters were.

[E.R. Campbell]

So, to sum up what has happened over the last 40 years: in trying to create a more efficient organization in which everyone is under the same roof and you don't have to walk the length of a city block to get anything done, we have instead created one that is too big to fit under any existing roof and is now at least as dispersed as the original three Service headquarters were.

Much more dispersed. Until circa 1970 the three service HQs were clustered together in downtown Ottawa - with a few offices in other, nearby buildings. Now part of NDHQ is in the Pearkes Building (two 17+ story towers by the Rideau Canal) but much (most?) of it is scattered all over two cities: Ottawa and Gatineau.

[TCBF]

- Well, dispersion IS crucial to survival on a nuclear battlefield.

 

[George Wallace]

- Well, dispersion IS crucial to survival on a nuclear battlefield.

 

Only if you ARE NOT down wind and down river from a strategic targeted Nuclear facility outside a Military Reservation....

[54/102 CEF]

So, to sum up what has happened over the last 40 years: in trying to create a more efficient organization in which everyone is under the same roof and you don't have to walk the length of a city block to get anything done, we have instead created one that is too big to fit under any existing roof and is now at least as dispersed as the original three Service headquarters were.

Not really - There`s the big building you see on TV then several other Complementary Bldgs around the City. Plus its as connected as any corporate HQ - but there are little power centres all over the place.

Get this - Minister approves a project - then it continues to circulate for signature - then it gets re-approved and verified at the Treasury Board. Sounds like big time duplication higher than DND to me.

Projects are supposed to start and stop in 28 months vs 108 months over ER Campbell's time. But obviously some will take longer and some shorter. If its a COTS project - Commercial Off the Shelf - it may look quicker but is it really?

So if the government could push the approval of certain levels of projects lower down - to say the Dept rather than the Dept plus Treasury Board - that could speed things up and make a spread out HQ greater than a pasture for some and a heart attack in the making for others.

Just my 2 cents as I ride the Shuttle to Point B from Point A.

[Greymatters]

Minor query, not a hijack:

Okay, Im confused - how did that 4 year gap get spanned?  Was this split from something else?

[Bruce Monkhouse]

We like to keep things info-friendly, so it was merged from another topic that swerved away from its original topic.

We're not just a bunch of pretty faces, ya know....... 

[57Chevy]

OTTAWA — The federal government is set to announce the purchase of the Nortel Networks campus just outside of Ottawa for the Department of National Defence.

Department officials have wanted for years to consolidate its dozens of offices in the city into several key locations.

The successful purchase of the $150-million Nortel campus will accomplish that goal, government sources say.

DND has been concerned about security, rising rents and aging buildings. The consolidation will also cut costs.

John MacLennan, national president of the Union of National Defence Employees, said his organization is concerned about transportation problems for workers commuting to suburban Ottawa.

"You're adding on extra time to get to work, from one end of the city to the other and transit services aren't the best. It's going to be a challenge for a lot of people."

The deal could be announced as early as Monday.
 article link

                     -reproduced under the fair dealings of the copyright act-

[Technoviking]

"You're adding on extra time to get to work, from one end of the city to the other and transit services aren't the best. It's going to be a challenge for a lot of people."

Boo-frickity-hoo!  What an asinine comment.  For some, yes, it will be further.  What of those who pass the NORTEL building on their way to the current location?  Is it any wonder why I hate unions?   

[E.R. Campbell]

If, and it's a Big IF, DND can convince cabinet to allow everyone to move to one campus - including the Gatineau, QC contingent - then it is a major relocation of one of the National Capital Region's biggest workforces. The transportation system IS an issue and it will, almost certainly, force the City of Ottawa to rethink its light rail system which will, again almost certainly, be the only really effective way to get that many people to and from one site, in the medium and longer terms.

[Occam]

Boo-frickity-hoo!  What an asinine comment.  For some most, yes, it will be further.  What of those who pass the NORTEL building on their way to the current location?  Is it any wonder why I hate unions?   

Fixed that for you.

The small number of people who are travelling from points west of Kanata already faced long commutes, so the reduction in their commutes would be insignificant.

Well, it's a small number now, before the significant shift of population away from Orleans in the coming years...

If, and it's a Big IF, DND can convince cabinet to allow everyone to move to one campus - including the Gatineau, QC contingent - then it is a major relocation of one of the National Capital Region's biggest workforces. The transportation system IS an issue and it will, almost certainly, force the City of Ottawa to rethink its light rail system which will, again almost certainly, be the only really effective way to get that many people to and from one site, in the medium and longer terms.

Rethink in a BIG way.  The light rail system that's been on the drawing boards only extends from Blair Station to Tunney's Pasture.  As an Orleans resident who works at Tunney's, I currently take one express bus to/from work.  If I ended up at the Nortel campus, it would go to one express bus, one light rail trip, and another bus....in each direction. 

I'm not amused, considering I already spend 80 minutes in transit per day.

[Technoviking]

I have to clarify my previous post.  It's just that compared to the sacrifices that our soldiers, sailors and air force personnel make on a continual basis (being away from home, last minute travel orders, braving the elements on yet another seemingly pointless exercise, getting shot at, etc), a longer commute pales in comparison.

[MCG]

... The light rail system that's been on the drawing boards only extends from Blair Station to Tunney's Pasture.

While that has been the plan, if the city does not actually build something that runs from Place d'Orleans to the Sens games, the city has already out-grown the railsystem that is not even built yet.

If, and it's a Big IF, DND can convince cabinet to allow everyone to move to one campus - including the Gatineau, QC contingent - then it is a major relocation of one of the National Capital Region's biggest workforces.

This is also exactly what DND and the CF need.

[George Wallace]

All this in a city who's motto should be "The City that Won't".  Light Rail has been discussed for decades.  Tunnels are an on again/off again discusion every decade or so.  Expansion of the Queensway (Hwy 417) won't happen as all the communities and Wards that it passes through won't accept expansion in "their backyards".  A Ring Road would make sense in any city but Ottawa, where "the Green Space must be protected" and "we don't want a highway going through the center of the suburbs" (which will soon be down to Cornwall).  A city where paying penalties for cancelling contracts a la the EH 101 is the norm.  Where rumours are already flying of DND building a super complex in the north of Gatineau to appease Quebec and Gatineau. 

Remember; DND was supposed to move out to the JDS Uniphase Complex off Prince of Wales Drive and that didn't happen.  The Mounties moved in instead.

Yup!  I'll believe it when I see it. 

[MCG]

I knew that I'd said it before: 

… and I still believe that NDHQ would be significantly more efficient if it were all in one city in a single building (or at least on a single campus of a few buildings).

[57Chevy]

Centralizing/Consolidating/Cutting Costs is the much greater challenge.

The move also coincides well with the likes of other Military Establishments
like the Pentagon.

As you say E.R. "If" is a big word 
Creating work and new job opportunities is also a major government responsibility.
Therefore, injecting funds for light rail transport, roads, and other systems is good for
the economy in the short....and long term.

[Occam]

Technoviking, a good number of those Orleans residents who would be affected by a major relocation of workplace would be military personnel - like me.

The minute these plans become official, I'll be able to watch property value in Orleans plummet.  I wonder how much success I'll have claiming a depressed market in Ottawa for the purposes of 100% Home Equity Assistance?   

While that has been the plan, if the city does not actually build something that runs from Place d'Orleans to the Sens games, the city has already out-grown the railsystem that is not even built yet.

I'm with you, but I'd go one better and take it all the way to Rockland.  In for a penny, in for a pound.

[Technoviking]

Silly me.  I thought that the role of the CF had something to do with the defence of Canada, not with maintenance of property values. 


Tell it to the guys who moved from Winnipeg to Shilo, or from Calgary and Victoria to Edmonton, or the guys who moved from London to Petawawa.....

[Occam]

Silly me.  I thought that the role of the CF had something to do with the defence of Canada, not with maintenance of property values. 

Does the role of the CF also include financially screwing its members?  Assure me that I'll get at least what I paid for my house when I have to move from Orleans in a couple of years, and I'll reconsider my position.

Tell it to the guys who moved from Winnipeg to Shilo, or from Calgary and Victoria to Edmonton, or the guys who moved from London to Petawawa.....

You'd have a hard time convincing me that those in Winnipeg, Calgary, Victoria(!) and London had a hard time selling their houses at or better than what they paid for them.

[George Wallace]

Ottawa/Gatineau is a totally disfunctional pair of cities.   There are too many levels of Government involved in even the most trivial of decisions.  Ottawa, The City that Won't, is hamstrung by the City Council, the Federal Government, the Provincial Government, the City of Gatineau Council, the Quebec Government, and the biggest hurdle to get past, the National Capital Commission.   Then of course there is the "Old Money" families who control other faucets of development in the city, not to mention the Unions, ie. OC Transpo's union. 

Grandiose plans are not unusual.  What is unusual is if all of these parties can get together in agreement, or at least the parties that are involved can agree. 

All of this does have an affect on whether or not DND will move/consolidate in the Nortel Campus.  There are legitimate transportation concerns.   There are the poor imaginations of current city and Regional planners in their plans for future development.  There are the numerous Left Wing and Environmental Lobbyists who are holding up development of Road and Rail transportation systems.   

The Nortel Campus may look good, as did the JDS Uniphase Campus off Prince of Wales Drive, but I imagine the same excuses will arise as to such a move. 

Will the city run Light Rail out to Shirley's Bay on the existing line, or will that be one hundred years in the making, long after the line has been turned into the Trans Canada Walking Trail? 

[muskrat89]

Wow. Almost every company I have worked for has moved at one point or another. No one cared how it affected my commute, nor did I expect them to. If it was best for the financial and operational well-being of the company, it was ultimately a benefit to the employees. I say that with the full understanding of the logistics involved with commuting to work - my one way trip is an hour to hour and a half, depending on weather, accidents, etc.

[Rider Pride]

Does the role of the CF also include financially screwing its members? 

Technically no, but if you talk to literally hundreds of people who have had be posted in the last decade you would find that the institution really doesn't give a rats behind about the welfare of any specific individual member, regardless whether it is financial, family or health related. When it comes down to it all, WE individuals are replaceable, and the institution must do what is best for the institution.

Sorry to sound crass, but that is the reality.

And as muskrat points out, what is best for an institution (company, country, etc.) is that if it benefits the institution it will, ultimately benefit the employees.