Author Topic: Fallout Shelters  (Read 9197 times)

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Offline bwarden

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2007, 15:32:45 »
We just moved into a brand new house built right next to the DND land where I'm hearing the bunker is located.  I'd love to chat with anyone else who has spent time there.  Very fascinating and intriguing to see this forbidden land behind a barbed wire fence in view from our home! 

Offline TN

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2007, 15:36:48 »
And where do you live now?
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Offline bwarden

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2007, 15:40:03 »
We live just off of College Drive between the Nanaimo Parkway and Westwood lake.  Our cul de sac backs onto DND land.  Were you ever at the bunker or on the DND land?

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2007, 15:46:11 »
We live just off of College Drive between the Nanaimo Parkway and Westwood lake.  Our cul de sac backs onto DND land.  Were you ever at the bunker or on the DND land?

That Classfield Information...


No just kidding. I honestly havn't step foot in BC. I'm a Maritimer. Only place west we go is to Fort McMoney, in Alberta.
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Offline bwarden

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2007, 15:48:03 »
such a tease!

Offline AES Op - Jr

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2007, 16:40:41 »
During the "Cold War" period every Province had what was known as "Provincial Warning Centers (PWC)."  Beside the big National Control bunker in Carp there was 6 bunkers built.  One in each of the following provinces:  1.  Nova Scotia, 2. Quebec, 3. Ontario, 4. Manitoba, 5. Alberta and 6. British Columbia.  Every other Provinces' PWC were housed normally within a government bldg.
Each bunker complex was actually 2 bunkers.  The main bunker was the largest housing the Provincial Premier and officials as well as reps from the National Banks (complete with a stock of gold), CBC, and various other organizations.  The second bunker was used as the communications transmitter site.  In Ontario the main bunker was in Borden with the transmitter site about 10km short of Wasaga Beach.  There was also a third component that was kept closer to the main bunker.  An antenna farm or the receiver site was usually less than 10km from the main bunker. 

The bunker in Borden has had the main tunnel bulldozed with the remainder left virtually in tact.  The bunker itself was totally self sufficient.  Having enough food and water to sustain all inhabitants for a prolonged period of time.  There was 2 very large electrical generators (the size of small locomotives) that I believe are still underground just needing a tune up and a boost to get going.

I worked in Borden for a couple of years.  Pretty cool nonetheless....


Offline Eland

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2007, 23:48:29 »

<snip>

The bunker in Borden has had the main tunnel bulldozed with the remainder left virtually in tact.  The bunker itself was totally self sufficient.  Having enough food and water to sustain all inhabitants for a prolonged period of time.  There was 2 very large electrical generators (the size of small locomotives) that I believe are still underground just needing a tune up and a boost to get going.

I worked in Borden for a couple of years.  Pretty cool nonetheless....



An uncle of mine was posted to Borden twice in his military career. When I was a kid he told me once he had to go into the bunker a few times and stay there for a couple days as part of an exercise. It was chilling, though, to hear that my aunt and cousins would not be able to accompany him in the event of a real emergency. The impression I had at the time that was that my uncle's family would be more or less on their own if the balloon went up. Although I suspect now that that was not wholly true. Arrangements would likely have been made to evacuate military families to a safe place in an emergency - if time permitted.

I have heard rumours that there exists a bunker somewhere near or just outside of Capreol, Ontario buried deep in the Canadian Shield. It was supposedly built as a replacement for the bunker at CFS Carp. I've also heard that the Valcartier facility remains fully operational. Anyone got any info to confirm or refute the rumour?

When I served with 'C' Squadron 1st Hussars ('79 ~ '81), the armoury was located in the basement of the Sarnia, Ontario postal building. Interestingly enough, the entire basement/armoury seemed to be configured as a fallout shelter of sorts - but not a hardened one. Part of the basement was hived off from the armoury portion and had rooms that looked like they were intended for storage - of what, I'm not certain. I never went into any of these rooms, and no one else I knew did either. There was no clear indication that this part of the basement was in use by either Canada Post, the regiment, or any other government department located in the building.

The parade square alone was large enough to accommodate many cots to be set up - probably 50 to 60 at minimum.

When going down the stairwell that led into the armoury, you could see a very large generator set located to your left and below, walled in by a cage-like structure. This was interesting to see, considering that the postal building in Sarnia was not a sorting plant, and no critical government departments were located there, either.

My best guess, and a wild one at that, is that the armoury was set up during the days of the National Survival system to house the local Militia during a crisis. Because the armoury didn't offer any definite indication that it was in fact also a fallout shelter, it seemed somehow like a partly-finished project. Maybe further development of the basement-cum-fallout-shelter was abandoned after the National Survival project ended. Or all of the things I've surmised could just be an overactive imagination at work.

By the way, I have toured the Diefenbunker museum at Carp. Very interesting piece of Cold War arcana. I can see why it fell into disuse - not only because of the end of the Soviet nuclear threat, but also the reality that Russian ICBM's by the early 70s were accurate enough to score a direct hit, or come so close as to render the facility non-functional.
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Offline a78jumper

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2007, 23:15:20 »
I have been in the one in Borden, they used to call it "the Hole" for a CFC CPX ca 1989. And in 1994/95 I was directly involved with the closeout of the Carp facility from a Supply perspective, it was the largest of the lot with a double bed for both the PM and the GG as presumeably they would have also brought their spouses. The Log O had moved into the PM's office!!  That same year I also had occasion to visit the one in Debert which was being used by the Comm Area HQ. That was one wasted visit all the way from Ottawa.

The one in Penhold had been closed out shortly before I got to what had been CFCCHQ. That was the only real justification for keeping that base open all those years after flying ceased there late 1960s.

All were very expensive to maintain and were more or less obsolete from the day they opened given the increased accuracy of ICBM warheads from the 1960s onwards.

As far as armouries go, I believe the one in Sault Ste Marie was constructed with global thermonuclear war in mind, or so I was told when I was there in 1998.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 23:26:06 by a78jumper »

Offline Larry Strong

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2007, 09:48:52 »
The bunker in Penhold is gone. it was totally removed...took the better part of a summer to destroy it.
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Offline Emenince Grise

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2007, 10:26:47 »
I did a tour of military museums in the Ottawa Valley this past summer, including the Diefenbunker at Carp. It's certainly worth the trip and the price of admission is a bargain. The staff are knowledgeable and quite fun, actually. And they have almost all of the info right. They could not, however, say much of what the computers at Carp actually did. There is more info in this thread about that than they could tell you on the tour! For some reason, no photos are allowed inside the Diefenbunker. They also have a DVD available in their gift shop that is the official Army Signals film of the construction of the Carp bunker. Amazing to see that the whole thing is electrically bonded and a complete Faraday Cage! On thing they also mentioned was the COG site at Kemptville, which was above ground. The Perth site was also mentioned in the tour.

Perhaps the most bizarre was the dig out plan in case of a nuclear hit. There were two escape tunnels built into the hill. Private Bloggins would be expected to trigger the escape trap and clamber up the tunnel, walk around to the south wall, where a bulldozer (which would have survived the nuclear strike somehow) would be waiting in operating condition. Bloggins would then be expected to dig out the bunker entrance.

Offline delavan

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #35 on: October 08, 2007, 11:31:03 »
Quote
I've also heard that the Valcartier facility remains fully operational. Anyone got any info to confirm or refute the rumour?

Yes it's used as transient quarters...

Offline geo

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #36 on: October 08, 2007, 12:06:16 »
Valcartier bunker being fully functional...... Yeah - sort of.
It is being used as transient quarters - though there have been several fires over the years.
A waste of good money if you ask me.... cheaper to shut er down & spend the maintenance cash to build some better transient quarters.
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Offline CTD

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #37 on: October 08, 2007, 12:25:08 »
The bunker in Nanaimo had the doors welded shut and then filled over with gravel. The hump of the bunker has been fenced in. The land around it has been handed to the Natives.
The bunker in Nanoose on the hill has had doors welded shut and again covered over with dirt. Not sure who manages the land. 
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 12:28:33 by CTD »

Offline geo

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #38 on: October 08, 2007, 12:31:33 »
CTD,
The problem I see with just welding the doors shut is that, regardless of who ultimately takes control of the site & manages the property, let one person get injured inside sometime in the future & guess who will be on the hook for negligently discharged their duty
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Offline CTD

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #39 on: October 08, 2007, 22:45:13 »
You would either have to spend a few days digging the dirt out or use a machine to do it.
They backfilled the entrances.
Plus DND still manages the area surrounding the bunkers.

Offline geo

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2007, 08:53:03 »
Heh.... am certain that it would make a tremendous demolition exercise to permanently put them out of action.

Dirt & Welds is good enough for a short period of time.  If the Gov't decides to dispose of the property, these bunkers will continue to pose a threat to some village idiot interested in exploring old government "secret" establishments.
Chimo!

I have been turned into a ferret by the resident witch!!
And back again..... what a ride!

Offline Air Force Chief Clerk

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2011, 15:12:18 »
Having read the posts on "bunkers" in the military, I worked as Chief Clerk in the Penhold (743 Comm Sqn 1983-85) and Nanaimo (740 Comm Sqn 1988 - 92) bunkers. In July 1992, my wife (a Tel Tech) was posted to the Carp bunker and I had a person tour of that one.

The bunkers both in Nanaimo and Penhold are totally gone!! Don't know how they did that but it was a good trick! There were two huge generators which kicked in automatically when the power was cut. It played hell with my computer when that happened!!

Offline E.R. Campbell

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2011, 15:40:09 »
The comms bunkers were designed in the 1950s and built in the '60s as part of a Canadian Army project called Bridge and they were, perforce, known as Bridge Sites. The centrepiece of Project Bridge was a computer, at Carp, what would, for the first time in Canada, provide automatic telegraph (teletype) routing for DND - this was a pioneering step in the military's use of computers, on a par with the RCAF's SAGE (Semi Automated Ground Environment)/BUIC (Back Up Interceptor Control) system that were designed and built in the same era.

The big computer - a feeble giant compared to anything on your desktop today - in Carp was one of the few members of a family of UK machines that were, originally, designed for airport terminal approach control.

Project Bridge then formed the backbone for the integrated Canadian Forces Communications System, which became Communications Command which became ...

The first generation computer at Carp, and its eventual successors, replaced dozens, then many hundreds of TelOps manning staffing old fashioned, slow and error prone torn tape relay stations.


A torn tape relay station


The "new" telegraph system was mated, in the same era, with a new, leased automatic telephone system that replaced the old manual switchboards.


A manual switchboard


The army field force caught up, with automatically switched systems, about 20 years later, at the end of the 1970s.
 

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Offline HollywoodCowboy

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Re: Fallout Shelters
« Reply #43 on: September 18, 2011, 21:32:51 »
During the ICE storm we bivved in a bunker located in Kemptville.
My parents home has a shelter, the floor of the basement is the roof of the shelter, my dad hangs all his meats in there and stores all the home made wine lol.
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