Reply to para 1: Cobbler happens to be Australian, and so am I! As citizens here, I am ******* sure we know more about this country and the regions politics than you do, considering you gather rather extreme leftist views and only seem to mollycoddle those thoughts.
Congratulations. As Australian citizens, I take it the both of you were born with PhDs in Australian History, South East Asian studies, International Relations, Peace and Conflict Studies, etc... So I won't argue with your expertise.
Newsflash, being born in Australia doesn't make you and expert on Australia. I'm not an expert on Australia, but it would unfortunately seem that I needn't know much about racism in Australia to know more about it than you do. I haven't tried to debate Australian politics, Australian social norms, how to catch a kangaroo, etc..., so don't accuse me of pretending to know more about Australia than you do. I most certainly don't, but I've never claimed to. Do you know more about racism in Australia than I do? It's quite clear you do not, because it appears you've tacitly agreed with Cobbler, who seems to think it doesn't exist. It most certainly does, and minorities feel it harder in your country than they do almost anywhere else.
Reply to para 2. WTF do you know about East Timor and Australia, and what happened back in 1975? Do you know of the Australian journalists who were murdered by DIRECT tank fire? Their deaths were actually recorded on film. We have deeper connections to that region which go back to the Sparrow Force days and beyond.
I'm not going to waste my time telling you what I know so you can say I've received all my information from Lenin himself. This is what I've written about Timor; let me know where you object:
-The US and Australia looked the other way when Indonesia invaded Timor.
-What did Australia do when 1/5 of the island's population was massacred? Nothing.
-The US didn't even stop selling arms to Indonesia until after the end of the Cold War, and even then, it did so against the wishes of the President.Do you dispute any of those points? I doubt it, you probably only hold them in contempt because they've come from me.
In 1999, Australia lead the invasion, and one just can't do someting that big on a moments notice. After what had gone in in the months previous we acted as fast as one could. So, I suggest you shut your pie-hole in regards to things which you have only read about on the INet, and never participated in.
Yeah, I get all my information from Pravda.ru. I'm not making things up. I try to read peer-edited reviews from authoritative academic journals, and base any comments I make upon facts taken from those sources. Those sources, I should add, are more or less indisputable, and are generally held by governments and academic institutions to be accurate histories of what occurred.
And what happened in 1999 doesn't really concern this argument. Sure, Australia came to rescue its Timorese brothers, but only after two and a half decades of oppression and murder. Australia and the global community didn't act anywhere near as fast as it could, it took its time. Unless, that is, if you consider 24-years to be a quick response.
With the ongoing shyte spewing from ROB's mouth, I suggest we simply ignore him, as it's obvious he wants an audience (just read every post he has made and decide for yourself). Simply put, you can't win an argument with an idiot because he has the experience, and will win everytime, and we don't get anywhere except lowering ourselves to his standard.
I have had enough of this idiot and I predict a meltdown is forthcoming, so lets sit back and watch the fireworks.
Do you have to insult me to try to convince yourself that I'm wrong?
Now you're professing to know more about Australia and it's workings than our Australian members? Must be hard to keep on top of all that while expanding upon your knowledge as the World Terrorism SME. You are one arrogant young man.
Being an Australian citizen doesn't automatically imbue you with knowledge of that country, and I've never claimed to know more about Australia than any other member here. It is likely, however, that I know more about racism and xenophobia in Australia than the majority of Australian members here, because I study that sort of thing.
LOL what? 
so because canadians vote liberal and NDP, that makes them pacifists? Sure, makes perfect sense. And secondly, many more canadians vote Conservative, or even the Alliance before the NDP.... whatever.
It doesn't matter that more Canadians vote Conservative than the NDP, and Canadian Alliance hasn't existed for two years. What matters is that more people vote Liberal, NDP, Green, etc... than they do for the Conservatives and parties that share similar ideas in regards to militarism or whatever you'd like to call it. I never said Canadians are pacifist because the vote NDP or Liberal, so I don't see why you'd make that assumption. Logically, people wouldn't be pacifists because they vote for either of the two parties, but would rather vote for one of those two parties because they are pacifists. Regardless, I make no such claim, I'm just trying to point out that the left is stronger than the center. You don't seem to understand what I've wrote. Read it again.
0 mil exp - So then you admit you have no idea what youre talking about in terms to the military?
More or less, yes.
What political objectives are you talking about? Is the Al-Qaeda party trying to win power in england and america then?
The only consistent pattern in their attacks, is that theyre killing westerners, and attempting to further the "jihad".
You want proof of the transit system being shadowed? Well I happened to be in the city of Toronto during the summer when the arrests were made, so im certain finding an article on it can't be that difficult, so ill look. And since you cant take someones word for something and would rather send them on a proof mission, i think you should prove every single statement you make, from this point forward.
They're not out to just kill westerners. That's just rhetoric western governments have been pushing to alienate citizens from the terrorist's causes and keep voters from analyzing foreign policy.
If they were actually out to kill a lot of people, their best target would be some major sporting event. But no, they're attacking economic and political targets, instead.
I happen to live in Toronto, and I read the newspaper everyday. I don't recall hearing about this story. That's not to say it didn't happen, because I obviously can't keep track of everything that's happening in the news, but you're missing the point. I don't doubt that arrests were made, but I'm wondering why, and with what evidence. Gathering information, for one, is far from blowing up the TTC, and doesn't mean they were going to blow up the TTC, either. I wanted to see the articles not because I doubt they exist, but because I doubt they say what you've inferred from them. And guess what...
Did you actually read the articles to which you've posted links? NOWHERE does it say that terrorists were shadowing any Canadian transit system. See, you just made that up. It says that one Arab man kissed an Arab book, placed it in a briefcase and ran away. Did the briefcase blow up? No, so why do you think he's a terrorist? Some other guy was hiding his camera as he filmed. Why? Maybe it's because you're not allowed to film anything on TTC property without a permit, and TTC employees will caution you if they see you. So perhaps he was hiding from employees looking to exercise their authority and tell someone what to do? Maybe, he was pretending to be a terrorist so he could be arrested, allege racism and sue the government for $1,000,000. He is suing, and guess what else? The government released him. It seems they don't have any evidence to keep him locked up.
This is just modern McCarthyism.
I thought it was fairly common knowledge around here that terror cells were active all over Canada, and that the transit systems were being analyzed...
It is common knowledge that there are terrorist organizations in Canada. I've never disputed that.
Ive voted Liberal before, I guess i want the troops out of afghanistan?
I never said that, either. You've completely missed the point of my comparison.
"We have never said that we are not at threat because in fact, we're one of five nations that were named by al Qaeda and therefore that is why we take these kinds of events very, very seriously." - Public Safety Minister, Anne McLellan
Nice quote. Here's another FROM THE EXACT SAME ARTICLE.
"Even though there is no present threat against Canada, the prime minister inisted, "we have to be vigilant.""Rob, like most of us here I try to stay within my arcs. I wouldn't claim to know more about Australia then members living and serving there, anymore than I'd claim to be an SME on weapons and ballistics over one of our real SMEs in that area.
Likewise.
Based on frequent travel and business in both Cuba and Mexico ( as well as elsewhere in Latin America) in the past 12 odd years I can assure you that the opinion of the average peon and/or companero in regards to their northern neighbours may surprise you.
Perhaps you may actually want to visit these places to get your facts rather than from your tattered copy of "Young Socialists Happy Happy Joy Joy Warm Fuzzy Hugs View of the World".
If I'm mistaken and you've actually traveled to either of these places may I suggest that next time you move farther a field than the swim up bar at your walled all-inclusive resort to gather your information.
I've traveled extensively around Mexico, and South-East Asia, and I've been to Cuba on three occasions. I tourist and resort areas, as I suppose you agree, the locals tend to be very friendly, and while natives from outside such areas don't tend to be as inviting, I didn't get the feeling that they were hostile towards Americans or Canadians, or towards the United States or Canada.
And, I'm most certainly not a socialist.
How so? How was Spain a major target? We are a target because we are a Western country. And being one of the US's top (still..right?) trading partners is certainly inviting an attack that could disrupt our (and to a smaller extent their) economy. Just an idea. Although I'm more worried about terrorists using Canada as a base to attack the US.
Terrorists probably use Canada as a base to attack the US. That alone is among the best reasons why they won't attack Canada.
How was Spain a major target? They had troops in Iraq, the public did not support this, and fear of terrorist attacks was cited as one of the major reasons why voters in pre-election polls had decided to vote for the socialist opposition. Some terrorist probably figured that a terrorist attack would increase public fear, and result in further support for the socialists, who would withdraw troops from Iraq and pass a bunch of stupid laws. If this was the case, the terrorists were correct, because the opposition won by a landslide.
Also, there's no proof that Al Qaeda contributed anything to the Madrid bombing. It's quite likely that the terrorists acted independently of Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.
Key word is yet. But you should be safe up there in your ivory tower, so why worry?
So what kind of proof/evidence should we wait for? Dead commuters in Montreal/Toronto/Ottawa (which I take a vested interest in, my family uses public transit to get to work and school)? Would that be enough 'proof' for you?
I never said we should wait for any proof. Are terrorists trying to attack Canada? I say, no. But that shouldn't influence what the RCMP and CSIS does. We should probably invest more money in both those organizations, stipulating that they use that money to investigate Islamic fundaamentalism.
Yet. Canada is yet to be attacked. In 10-years, that same statement will ring as true as it does today.
You keep claiming that an attack on Canada would be a setback to AQ. Please elabourate. They are not necessarily out looking to kill as many westerners as possible (IMHO), but to set the ground (by making attacks on transit systems etc) to actually terrorize western society enough so that we start making bad decisions which gives them more ammo to start the real jihad. Maybe my tin foil hat fell off today, but I think that the real 'war on(with) terror' has yet to begin.
Canada is a gateway for terrorists bent on attacking the United States. It serves as a headquarters for many Islamic groups that have been accused of terrorism, and Canada's legal system does not allow the government to effectively police and investigate terrorists. Canada's immigration and refugee laws are sub par, and multicultural communities allow terrorists to blend in seamlessly. Canada's involvement in the war on terrorism is minor, and it's relationship with the United States under the Martin administration have been poor. A terrorist attack would likely promote public support for withdrawing the troops from Afghanistan, but this is unlikely to happen, and without public support, the government is unlikely to increase the number of troops it has in Afghanistan, so the entire Afghanistan situation would not likely be affected much. On the other hand, Canada would probably restrict immigration and refugee claimants, and increase funding for counter-terrorism activities, compromising Canada as a base of operations.
Also, any terrorist attack requires a lot of time and money. Attacking Canada when it wouldn't be much harder to attack the United States would be a waste of valuable resources.
A lot of nations hold Canada in high regard as a peacekeeping nation, and believe the Canadian Forces to be very weak, so attacking Canada wouldn't do much in terms of bolstering support among Muslims. On the other hand, any attack on the "Great Satan" proves that America, despite its strength, is not invincible.
So, not only would attacking Canada be a waste of time and money, it would be counter-productive for terrorists within Canada.
Its easier for Cubans and Mexicans to sneak into America (and Canada to a lesser extent) so that they can take advantage of our system. Its harder for Indonesians. If your jealous of someone/something and you can't take the thing you are jealous of, you begin hate it instead.
A lot of South East Asians make it to Australia every year. A lot of Arabs and Middle Easterners also make it to Australia every year, via Indonesia, because it's not hard to get in, but if they catch you, they send you to a concentration camp in the desert. They don't hate Australia because it's hard to get in. If they do, I suppose they've been lying and have just been saying "racism" instead to confound researchers.
Exactly. On Sept 10, 2001, do you think Americans were thinking that a terrorist attack was imminent? It's not like Al-Queda will call the PM and say, "ok, we're going to attack this target on this day, at this time...be ready!"
No, but America had been attacked by terrorists in the recent past, and intelligence reports clearly indicated the terrorist were actively planning attacks.
What's your point, anyways?
If you're saying "we should prepare," I don't disagree with you, and you would have realized that if you had taken the time to read everything instead of just contributing a useless post.
Canada isn't going to get attacked by terrorists. I say that with as much certainty as I say "I'm not going to get into a car accident." I still wear seatbelts.
In any event, the fact that Americans didn't know on September 10th that the events of September 11th would unfold the next day does nothing to prove any point whatsoever.
Sorry for the long post. I'm trying to address everyone so that none of my detractors can accuse me of escaping their supposed "issues."
