Topic: toronto police take out armed guy with a cop car pretty cool

[COBRA-6]

I agree that this is picture-perfect justification for widespread taser issue (every cruiser!).

Does anyone know if he was pepper sprayed before they nailed him with the car? If not was it a safe-distance issue? I guess they didn't have any of those APEC-sized canisters handy...

I remember a similar incident with a sword-wielding madman on real-tv... they subdued him using fire hoses and ladders!

To bad it wasn't a police-steamroller... lol

[PIKER]

If not was it a safe-distance issue?

Use of OC would of put the officer within range of the edge weapons..  The effectiveness of edge weapons is under 21 feet as a person can close that distance within seconds and deliver his results.

Hence, no imminent threat to police or public.  Hence, excessive force unjustified.  Another notch for the cowboys.

The quarterbacking is great from the safety of your download on CP24.. I would say that an armed emotionally disturbed person in the downtown core of Toronto falls into the category of "threat to police or public". It was in the interests of the public and that troubled person to act and disarm him..

Piker

[COBRA-6]

Use of OC would of put the officer within range of the edge weapons.. The effectiveness of edge weapons is under 21 feet as a person can close that distance within seconds and deliver his results.

That's what I assumed, what is the effective range of OC spray carried by most police? Obviously not as far as the fire-extinguisher sized riot control cannisters...

[Slim]

Sorry, but I side with Navalgent on this one.   The police were able to retreat to stay out of the individual's knife range.   ie.   They had a means of evasion.   Hence, no imminent threat to police or public.   Hence, excessive force unjustified.   Another notch for the cowboys.

One of the things I teach on the firing range is "use-of-force" and let me tell you...He may have been out of range of the police, but that could have changed in an instant and directly threatened the life of an officer or a by-stander.

Also with either drugs or mental instability, OC spray or even bullets are not a guarantee you're going to stop the man sufficiently and safely enough to get him into restraints...Specially if he was out to create the situation of "suicide by cop" as the papers seem to suggest.

Try not to armchair quarterback...You weren't there and don't know the whole story, and don't seem to be up on the current use of force laws.

Slim

[George Wallace]

Slim

I guess that they feel that a couple of rounds fired would have been less excessive.   

GW

[Tommy]

Thanks Slim, you summed it up much better then I would have been able to.
 

and Intelligere, no offense, but if youre going to state something like that, please back up your statements with fact as to why you know it was excessive.

My experience is by my own addmission fairly limited to what i have seen and done in regards to military ROE's and having taken Police Foundations at the college level (at humber in toronto taught by alot of members of TPS). however i have done enough research on use of force and less-then-lethal weapons to know that the police on scene were left with very few viable alternatives to deadly force. Use of the car was not only innovative but also showed that police were willing to do ANYTHING to avoid taking a life that day. the fact is, the SIU were called in. looked at what happened and concluded that the police were doing their job. there may be an investigation at a lower level, but i personally doubt it. 

I would explain to you how use of force works in the police world (as i understand it) but i dont have the space, and more importantly as i am not a police officer i dont have the practical experiance to back up my understanding.

Toronto Police are not "Cowboys" they have to come up with some unique solutions to some very unique problems. sometimes the public just doesnt like to see them accually do their job because it isnt pretty.

Regards
    Josh

[Slim]

Well said...

Further to my last...

The Special Investigations Unit has terminated its investigation of the incident that occurred on March 8, 2005 at the intersection of Yonge and Wellesley Streets in Toronto, in which a 34-year-old male was struck by a Toronto Police Service cruiser.


Police had been called to the intersection in response to reports of the male acting in a threatening fashion in the area. The male was eventually arrested and taken to St. Michael's Hospital for an injury to his left wrist sustained in the collision.

Upon review of medical information related to the injury, the SIU confirmed that the male sustained a minor hairline fracture of the left wrist. In the circumstances, SIU Director James L. Cornish has decided the incident does not fall within the SIU's mandate, which is limited to incidents of serious injury and death that occur in circumstances involving the police.

As the incident now falls within the purview of the TPS, the SIU will make no further comment on it.

The SIU is a civilian agency that investigates circumstances involving police and civilians which have resulted in serious injury, sexual assault or death. Under Part VII, Section 113, of the Police Services Act, the Director of the SIU has the sole authority to decide whether or not charges are warranted based on the findings of a complete investigation. The Director's decision is reported to the Attorney General.

http://torontopolice.on.ca/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1549&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
 

 

Slim

[Glorified Ape]

look closer...thats no parking metre.

It's a bike-lock post.

[Slim]

It's a bike-lock post.

Why is this important?

[Glorified Ape]

Why is this important?

It isn't... much like the majority of stuff posted in Radio Chatter. 

[JasonH]

Perfect use of a police cruiser.  Obviously the suspect wanted 'Suicide by Cop' and they didn't want nothing of it.