Topic: First Aid / CPR

[Robert S]

Hello guys and girls, Im considering going to sait(school) to get my First aid and CPR. But before I do I was wanting to know if I should even bother with it. The Army(infrantry) should provide any first aid / cpr training right? or should I just goto sait for it. Dumb question again but I have nothing else to do.

[swanita]

Yes, you will do some first aid & CPR during basic training, so might as well save your money.

Cheers 

[Robert S]

Ok Thanks.

[-Hutch-]

Yes, you will do some first aid & CPR during basic training, so might as well save your money.

Cheers 

does that qualify you as a first aid qualified person though?

[BeadWindow(Banned)]

does that qualify you as a first aid qualified person though?

yes.

[George Wallace]

You'll do a test and get a certificate from it.   There are many St John's Ambulance First Aid Instructors in the Forces, and they stay current by instructing to their Units and other Units as requested.

[a Sig Op]

The military doesn't issue first aid certificates, I'm guessing under the logic that it has the record that you've learned it, but you can make a request for them... not entirely sure on the process.

[BeadWindow(Banned)]

The military doesn't issue first aid certificates, I'm guessing under the logic that it has the record that you've learned it, but you can make a request for them... not entirely sure on the process.

yeah you have to pay the 5 dollars to get the card issued. Ask the instructor when you take the course.

[MJP]

The military doesn't issue first aid certificates, I'm guessing under the logic that it has the record that you've learned it, but you can make a request for them... not entirely sure on the process.

They don't issue them as it would cost to much and besides according to the DAODs every soldier is suppose to be trained to the standard level of First Aid and Level C CPR, so in theory every soldier you potentially meet is most likely a first aider.  We all know though that people fall through the cracks....but I think there are enough around.

If you need a certificate, for whatever reason talk to your instructor and give them your reason for needing one.  They will most likely not request one for you if you just want it to look at it, but if you have a legit reason they will get it for you.  What they do is email the Ottawa Special Center and request one.  From there Ottawa goes over to St. John's and gets the certificate and then sends it to your instructor who will give it to you.  It a fairly painless process, but can take some time depending on how swamped the special center is

[nawk]

When I did BMQ everyone received their St. John's ambulance first aid certificate free of charge.

[George Wallace]

Just to clear this up a bit....You don't get the certificate/card from the CF, but from St John's Ambulance.

[a Sig Op]

Being a reserverist, a first aid certificate comes in handy civvie side... last time I did the course, the instructor asked who wanted a certificate, naturally, the bulk of the students raised their hands, so everyone raised their hands. About a month later, they all arrived, free of charge.

[MJP]

They are always free of charge for the students...The CF still pays for them though.  That is why most units don't get them for their soldiers.

[Canadian Sig]

When I did BMQ everyone received their St. John's ambulance first aid certificate free of charge.

   My course as well.

[Hatchet Man]

Just to clear this up a bit....You don't get the certificate/card from the CF, but from St John's Ambulance.

When I did BMQ everyone received their St. John's ambulance first aid certificate free of charge.

Everyone go here www.sja.ca now tell me what you see.  What should I see you ask? Well it is St JOHN Amublance.  St. John's is a City in the Maritimes.  Sorry, I volunteer for the St. John Amublance Brigade, and it is a pet peeve of mine.   

[the 48th regulator]

hmm,

Everytime I did the course in the CF, I received a card upon completion. 

dileas

tess

[quasiparamedic]

Everyone go here www.sja.ca now tell me what you see.  What should I see you ask? Well it is St JOHN Amublance.  St. John's is a City in the Maritimes.  Sorry, I volunteer for the St. John Amublance Brigade, and it is a pet peeve of mine.   

Actually, St. John's is a city in the Atlantic Provinces, NOT the Maritimes. Newfoundland is not part of the Maritimes (Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island). It's a pet peeve of mine, being raised a Maritimer myself. Don't get me started on the whole SAINT John versus ST. John debate....

Have a look here: http://atlas.gc.ca/site/english/maps/reference/provincesterritories/maritimes

Getting back on topic, I'm a Canadian Red Cross first aid instructor, and I've taken St. John Ambulance first aid courses in the past. For both organizations, wallet card certificates are generally given out at the end of the course at no extra cost, at least on the civvie side. From the Red Cross perspective, the cost of the wallet cards is included in the course package for each candidate. However, if the candidate wants a large certificate to put up on the wall, that would be an extra cost.

[kratz]

** [CAUTION: Before replying to a post from the first 16 posts]**  This thread is revived to save search efforts WRT first aid.

refs: 1) CMP Instruction 11/06 – First Aid and Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation Training:
            SUPERCEDED by CMP XX/12
        2) CMP Instruction 02/05 – Automated External Defibrillator Usage:
            (http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/02-05-eng.asp)

So reference 1) is already pulled off the website in anticipation of CMP XX/12
I have a copy of CMP XX/12 in my hands, but they anticipate the draft will be approved within Jan 2012.

AED must be taught at all DND/CF courses (chapter 22, not the chapter 4 option).
-Units will need to purchase AED Trainers, from their own training budget. NOT funded by DND SC.
- There are  handful of companies with NSO (National Standing Orders) with DND.
- Average cost is $300 or less per AED Trainer, units will also need correct manikins
- Average cost is $134 or less per manikin.

- For a normal 18 student course, 5 AED trainers and manikins plus maintenance costs from the manufacture equals $4000, plus taxes, S&H. Bulk deals are available if they are pre-identified before the purchase.

- 5 Back Blows, then 5 chest compressions is now the conscious sever choking standard.

- Chopping up DVD videos in a lesson is the SJA standard.

- Contracting FAI skills out to SJA or another company is no longer approved.
- Buying books directly from SJA is no longer approved
- First Aid certificates for 100% of all DND/CF students will be printed and mailed out
by SJA National office, through DND Special Center, within 25 working days of receiving the course report.

- You can not start instructing the 2011 protocols without attending a military upgrade course.

- Those upgrades can not be offered until the books/DVD/Exams are available to be ordered.
Best case scenario – Feb 2012
Worst case scenario – Jun 2012

The “Take away” message from this seminar is to continue instructing the current FA program until the materials for the 2011 version is available. With no books in the system, you must reuse what you have.

This is not a comprehensive list of the discussions or topics covered over the national FAIT seminar. Rather, this is a heads up for FAIs and other FAITs for the way ahead. It also offers another venue for discussion if needed.

[NFLD Sapper]

** [CAUTION: Before replying to a post from the first 16 posts]**  This thread is revived to save search efforts WRT first aid.

refs: 1) CMP Instruction 11/06 – First Aid and Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation Training:
            SUPERCEDED by CMP XX/12
        2) CMP Instruction 02/05 – Automated External Defibrillator Usage:
            (http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/pd/pi-ip/02-05-eng.asp)

So reference 1) is already pulled off the website in anticipation of CMP XX/12
I have a copy of CMP XX/12 in my hands, but they anticipate the draft will be approved within Jan 2012.

AED must be taught at all DND/CF courses (chapter 22, not the chapter 4 option).
-Units will need to purchase AED Trainers, from their own training budget. NOT funded by DND SC.
- There are  handful of companies with NSO (National Standing Orders) with DND.
- Average cost is $300 or less per AED Trainer, units will also need correct manikins
- Average cost is $134 or less per manikin.

- For a normal 18 student course, 5 AED trainers and manikins plus maintenance costs from the manufacture equals $4000, plus taxes, S&H. Bulk deals are available if they are pre-identified before the purchase.

- 5 Back Blows, then 5 chest compressions is now the conscious sever choking standard.

- Chopping up DVD videos in a lesson is the SJA standard.

- Contracting FAI skills out to SJA or another company is no longer approved.
- Buying books directly from SJA is no longer approved
- First Aid certificates for 100% of all DND/CF students will be printed and mailed out
by SJA National office, through DND Special Center, within 25 working days of receiving the course report.

- You can not start instructing the 2011 protocols without attending a military upgrade course.

- Those upgrades can not be offered until the books/DVD/Exams are available to be ordered.
Best case scenario – Feb 2012
Worst case scenario – Jun 2012

The “Take away” message from this seminar is to continue instructing the current FA program until the materials for the 2011 version is available. With no books in the system, you must reuse what you have.

This is not a comprehensive list of the discussions or topics covered over the national FAIT seminar. Rather, this is a heads up for FAIs and other FAITs for the way ahead. It also offers another venue for discussion if needed.

kratz can you send me a link to the source msg?

[cypres78]

** [CAUTION: Before replying to a post from the first 16 posts]**  This thread is revived to save search efforts WRT first aid.


- 5 Back Blows, then 5 chest compressions is now the conscious sever choking standard.

Im having a hard time picturing this. If your giving back blows Im assuming the pt is still on their feet(even is they weren't)...how do switch back and forth between with chest compressions and back blows?

 

[medicineman]

Hmmmm - is that for adult??

MM

[cypres78]

Hmmmm - is that for adult??

MM

Im thinking not?

The 5 back blows/chest compressions is the current standard for infant choking

[medicineman]

I'm pretty sure I was awake for my CPR refresher a few months back and seem to remember that as well...if it's for an adult, do we tie their ankles together and hang them upside down to administer these back blows then punch them in the chest after?

MM

[recceguy]

I'm pretty sure I was awake for my CPR refresher a few months back and seem to remember that as well...if it's for an adult, do we tie their ankles together and hang them upside down to administer these back blows then punch them in the chest after?

MM

If we could do that, I probably wouldn't try dodge the FA\CPR refreshers.

[dangerboy]

Now these guys are going to have to update their videos

http://vimeo.com/12204236?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Vimeo%2FAvatarNemo+%28AvatarNemo+%40+Vimeo%29

[medicineman]

I remember many moons ago doing my lifeguard training and when we were doing the choking stuff, you still had to landmark just off the navel and we were told that (at that time in fashion history) that ladies jeans were higher cut than men's, so just do a quick check with your finger uner the blet line to make sure you're in the right spot.  I had a female partner, quite nice on the eyes, who only heard  " put your hands under the belt line to look for the right spot", so shoved her hands right down my pants...

To be 16 again  .

MM

[camouflage]

Im having a hard time picturing this. If your giving back blows Im assuming the pt is still on their feet(even is they weren't)...how do switch back and forth between with chest compressions and back blows?

I'm thinking back blows is only for infant.

But I got curious too, is 5 backblows and 5 chest thrusts applicable for adults?

[kratz]

kratz can you send me a link to the source msg?

CMP XX/12 is in draft at the moment and not released.
It is anticipated that it will be released in early Jan 2012.

Just like the last CMP simply introduced the requirment to instruct infant CPR, units were responsible
to purchase their own. The same intent will be in place for the AED-Trainers and appropriate AED manikins.

[kratz]

The 5 back blows, followed by 5 abdominal thrusts
are one of the many 2011 protocol changes from the current 2006 protocols.

Those back blows, follwed by abdominal thrusts are for conscious choking adult and children.
The skill will be demonstrated to you on course. (no tying of feet) 

There is no change to infant choking.

[cypres78]

The 5 back blows, followed by 5 abdominal thrusts
are one of the many 2011 protocol changes from the current 2006 protocols.

Those back blows, follwed by abdominal thrusts are for conscious choking adult and children.
The skill will be demonstrated to you on course. (no tying of feet) 

There is no change to infant choking.

Thrusts being the key word, not compressions as stated above 

[Brihard]

I'm on my first aid instructor course right now. We were told today that the new protocols are expected to hit CF wide all at once, probably about September 2012. My source for this is an FAI trainer at CFSU(O) training cell.  I did a St John emergency first aid course recently for something else, and the new protocols had already been moved to.

[kratz]

The authority to instruct the 2011 protocols is already out.
The hold up is the ability to instruct those new protocols when the proper materials are not in the system yet.
Until then the current (read old) protocols will be instructed.

Once the books/DVDs ect... are available through Base Pubs / DND Special Centre
then the expectation for all FAI to be instructing the new protocols will be ensured by base / unit FAITs.

We were informed the best case timeline is currently Feb 2012 for the new materials.
The worst case timeline is looking out at June 2012.

[medicineman]

Luckily the next research won't be published until about 2015/16...where they'll go back to the 2005 guidelines, or maybe even earlier (like pre-1986).

MM