Author Topic: The Global Warming Super Thread  (Read 198397 times)

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Online Thucydides

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #975 on: July 05, 2008, 11:02:17 »
Back in the 1970's, scientists predicted that we were slipping into a new Ice Age, and proposed solutions like sprinkling carbon soot on the ice caps to increase the global absorption of solar energy. I think we can all be thankfull that no one actually had the ability to generate "Global cooling" hysteria at that time.

Today, many people are noticing that a reduction in solar activity is leading to another period of global cooling, which has the potential to slide into another "Little Ice Age" should solar activity remain depressed for a prolonged period of time (the last little ice age ran from the @ 1250 AD [the advance of the arctic ice packs] to the mid 19th century).  While reducing (or even increasing) so called GHG will probably have little effect on the global climate, focusing all our resources and efforts on this has a huge potential to divert resources from other activities with greater return, and of course if the IPCC sock puppets guessed wrong, then they have eliminated the ability to correct the situation (the ultimate opportunity cost!).

Politicians who want to set long term "targets" for anything might want to contemplate the fate of nations and empires which used that methodology in the past: four and five[/quote] year plans.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Matty Lowe

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #976 on: July 15, 2008, 00:18:59 »
Global cooling was the reason pollution control devices were added to cars in the early 70's; global warming reminds me of the Y2K marketing program used to scare people into purchasing new computers. Now the strategy is being used to scare people into buying more energy efficient appliances etc.

Offline JBG

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #977 on: July 16, 2008, 23:59:02 »
Global cooling was the reason pollution control devices were added to cars in the early 70's; global warming reminds me of the Y2K marketing program used to scare people into purchasing new computers. Now the strategy is being used to scare people into buying more energy efficient appliances etc.
Great way to force middle class people who barely make ends meet to waste money, isn't it?
If it's us or them, I choose us.

Offline YZT580

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #978 on: July 17, 2008, 03:25:31 »
It is a wonderful way to make a lot of money though.  Just take a look at the companies that Al (I am fully committed to the environment in my Gulfstream 111) Gore has his investments in.  Our very own Power Corp. (fund raiser extraordinaire for the liberal party) has duplicate interests.  Incidentally, during the mini ice age referred to above, CO2 levels were significantly lower than they are now

Online Thucydides

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #979 on: August 04, 2008, 16:59:04 »
Australia is beginning to have a healthy debate on the subject (i.e. hysterics can't just shout down the skeptics anymore)

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24122117-7583,00.html

Quote
Climate hysterics v heretics in an age of unreason

Arthur Herman | August 04, 2008

IT has been a tough year for the high priests of global warming in the US. First, NASA had to correct its earlier claim that the hottest year on record in the contiguous US had been 1998, which seemed to prove that global warming was on the march. It was actually 1934. Then it turned out the world's oceans have been growing steadily cooler, not hotter, since 2003. Meanwhile, the winter of 2007 was the coldest in the US in decades, after Al Gore warned us that we were about to see the end of winter as we know it.
In a May issue of Nature, evidence about falling global temperatures forced German climatologists to conclude that the transformation of our planet into a permanent sauna is taking a decade-long hiatus, at least. Then this month came former greenhouse gas alarmist David Evans's article in The Australian, stating that since 1999 evidence has been accumulating that man-made carbon emissions can't be the cause of global warming. By now that evidence, Evans said, has become pretty conclusive.

Yet believers in man-made global warming demand more and more money to combat climate change and still more drastic changes in our economic output and lifestyle.
The reason is that precisely that they are believers, not scientists. No amount of empirical evidence will overturn what has become not a scientific theory but a form of religion.

But what kind of religion? More than 200 years ago, Scottish Enlightenment philosopher David Hume put his finger on the process. His essay, Of Superstition and Enthusiasm, describes how even in civilised societies the mind of man is subject to certain unaccountable terrors and apprehensions when real worries are missing.

As these enemies are entirely invisible and unknown, like today's greenhouse gases, people try to propitiate them by ceremonies, observations, mortifications, sacrifices such as Earth Day and banning plastic bags and petrol-driven lawnmowers.

Fear and ignorance, Hume concludes, are the true source of superstition. They lead a blind and terrified public to embrace any practice, however absurd or frivolous, which either folly or knavery recommends.

The knaves today, of course, are the would-be high priests of the global warming orthodoxy, with former US vice-president Gore as their supreme pontiff.
As Hume points out, the stronger mixture there is of superstition, with its ambience of ignorance and fear, the higher is the authority of the priesthood.
As with the Church in the Dark Ages or the Inquisition during the Reformation, they denounce all doubters, such as Evans or Britain's Gilbert Monckton as dangerous heretics, outliers in Gore's phrase: or as willing tools of the evil enemy of a healthy planet, Big Oil.

This is not the first time, of course, that superstition has paraded itself as science, or created a priesthood masquerading as the exponents of reason. At the beginning of the previous century we had the fascination with eugenics, when the Gores of the age such as E.A. Ross and Ernst Haeckel warned that modern industrial society was headed for race suicide.

The list of otherwise sensible people who endorsed this hokum, from Winston Churchill to Oliver Wendell Holmes, is embarrassing to read today.
Then as now, money was poured into foundations, institutes, and university chairs for the study of eugenics and racial hygiene. Then as now, it was claimed that there was a scientific consensus that modern man was degenerating himself into extinction.

Doubters such as German anthropologist Rudolf Virchow were dismissed as reactionaries or even as tools of the principal contaminators of racial purity, the Jews.
And then as now, proponents of eugenics turned to the all-powerful state to avert catastrophe.

A credulous and submissive public allowed politicians to pass laws permitting forced sterilisation of the feeble-minded, racial screening for immigration quotas, minimum wage laws (which Sidney and Beatrice Webb saw as a way to force the mentally unfit out of the labor market) and other legislation which, in retrospect, set the stage for the humanitarian catastrophe to come.

In fact, when the Nazis took power in 1933, they found that the Weimar Republic had passed all the euthanasia legislation they needed to eliminate Germany's useless mouths. The next target on their racial hygiene list would be the Jews.

Real science rests on a solid bedrock of scepticism, a scepticism not only about certain religious or cultural assumptions, for example about race, but also about itself.
It constantly re-examines what it regards as evidence, and the connections it draws between cause and effect. It never rushes to judgment, as race science did in Germany in the 1930s and as the high priests of climate change are doing today.

Politicians everywhere should be forced to take an oath similar to the Hippocratic oath taken by doctors: above all else, do no harm. The debate in Australia on this issue is rapidly building to a climax.

Before they make decisions that could trim Australia's gross domestic product by several percentage points a year and impose heavy penalties on Australians' lifestyle, Labour and Liberal alike need to re-examine the superstition of global warming.

Otherwise, the only thing it will melt away is everyone's civil liberty.
 
Arthur Herman is a historian and author, his most recent book is Gandhi and Churchill: The Epic Rivalry That Destroyed an Empire and Forged Our Age. He and Ayaan Hirsi Ali will speak at the Centre for Independent Studies Big Ideas Forum tonight at Sydney Opera House on the Ideas of the Enlightenment.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline faceman

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #980 on: August 04, 2008, 17:43:46 »
okay here's a link, apparently 90% of the worlds leading scientists agree that we are the cause of global warming.
http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=99FB6D4E-E7F2-99DF-3030E2BDAB849DC5
this isn't crack pot science either, Scientific American is PRIMO science!  Unless you think god put fossils in the ground to test us.....
I'm still shocked about people's speculation on this thread, if you don't know what your talking about it's best not to talk.  That's why citations where created so you could quote people who do know things about it, IE. masters and phd level scientists.  I'm not a big fan of any of the economic measures surrounding this issue like carbon credits, i think the answer is really about long term vision.  As a society we're not going to be able to live on oil for more than 100 years anyways so why not start in moving away from oil based economics...is it really that hard to build windmills, put solar panels on the roof and build electric and hydrogen cars?  Where there's no will, there's not way, unfortunately.  just my two cents

Offline George Wallace

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #981 on: August 04, 2008, 17:51:59 »
...is it really that hard to build windmills, put solar panels on the roof and build electric and hydrogen cars?  Where there's no will, there's not way, unfortunately.  just my two cents

I won't address you 90% claim, as I don't believe it, having seen figures to the contrary.  I will address the above statement though.  It is not hard to build windmills and they are popping up all over Europe.  Unfortunately, here in Canada, the same people who are complaining about the harm we do to the environment are also the people who complain that they don't want a noisy windmill within 100 m of their homes.  They are the same people who complain about plans to build better roads to alleviate the problems of motorways becoming parking lots full of idling cars during rush hours.  They are the people who do nothing but complain, and have no acceptable solutions.........no even for harnessing all the hot air they spew.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 17:56:41 by George Wallace »
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Offline CDN Aviator

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #982 on: August 04, 2008, 17:57:36 »
if you don't know what your talking about it's best not to talk. 

That applies to you too sport....

Quote
  electric and hydrogen cars? 

Even the enviro-hugging pinkos dont want to support the only source of energy that will make electric veh. possible. Hydrogen is a dream we need to wake up from.
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Offline JBG

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #983 on: August 05, 2008, 00:05:39 »
okay here's a link, apparently 90% of the worlds leading scientists agree that we are the cause of global warming.
http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=99FB6D4E-E7F2-99DF-3030E2BDAB849DC5
this isn't crack pot science either, Scientific American is PRIMO science!  Unless you think god put fossils in the ground to test us.....
I'm still shocked about people's speculation on this thread, if you don't know what your talking about it's best not to talk.  That's why citations where created so you could quote people who do know things about it, IE. masters and phd level scientists.  I'm not a big fan of any of the economic measures surrounding this issue like carbon credits, i think the answer is really about long term vision. 
I think that scientists are biased towards finding a problem, since "non-problems" don't get study funding.

As a society we're not going to be able to live on oil for more than 100 years anyways so why not start in moving away from oil based economics...is it really that hard to build windmills, put solar panels on the roof and build electric and hydrogen cars?  Where there's no will, there's not way, unfortunately.  just my two cents
Peak oil has been postphoned repeatedly since 1920. I don't buy it.
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Offline Cdn Blackshirt

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #984 on: August 05, 2008, 00:33:07 »
okay here's a link, apparently 90% of the worlds leading scientists agree that we are the cause of global warming.
http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=99FB6D4E-E7F2-99DF-3030E2BDAB849DC5
this isn't crack pot science either, Scientific American is PRIMO science!  Unless you think god put fossils in the ground to test us.....
I'm still shocked about people's speculation on this thread, if you don't know what your talking about it's best not to talk.  That's why citations where created so you could quote people who do know things about it, IE. masters and phd level scientists.  I'm not a big fan of any of the economic measures surrounding this issue like carbon credits, i think the answer is really about long term vision.  As a society we're not going to be able to live on oil for more than 100 years anyways so why not start in moving away from oil based economics...is it really that hard to build windmills, put solar panels on the roof and build electric and hydrogen cars?  Where there's no will, there's not way, unfortunately.  just my two cents

1)  It is questionable at best that you heckle the skeptic side of the argument after posting a single link as I can guarantee you the skeptic side in general is much more well-read, and well-researched on the subject that the lemming side of the argument that watched Al Gore's movie and bought in whole heartedly to the "Mankind is Bad" hippy crap message.
2)  When you're talking about science, don't confuse your "long-term vision" issues with the Global Warming debate.  They are two separate and distinct issues that both need to be reviewed and assessed on their own.  The fact the pro-AGW crowd generally characterizes the anti-AGW crowd as non-Environmental shows their ignorance.  In fact most of us on the skeptic side of the Global Warming debate do believe that we are overconsuming, overpopulated and man is living in an unsustainable fashion on this planet. 

Bottom Line:  Your statement very much implies that i) AGW is true because of your link, and ii) That even if it AGW is not true, it should still be promoted as part of a larger effort to change man kind's behaviour.  Bluntly, AGW is a crock.  I'll let you do your own research over the next several years to make your own determinination because sadly this debate too often on the pro-AGW side resembles religion instead of science, and arguing with a zealout is a waste of everyone's time.  And re: Other changes (like reducing dependency on oil due to peak oil, and in general lowering our footprint), that's best left to another thread as in that vein, you'll most certainly find unanimity on the subject between both pro-AGW and anti-AGW  posters.



Matthew.  :salute:

P.S.  Just for some context:  I started out several years ago on the pro-AGW side of the debate and eventually read enough that I could no longer sustain the position and I've been reducing, recycling, composting and doing things like carrying re-usable linen grocery bags since long before it became cool & trendy to do so....
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Offline DBA

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #985 on: August 05, 2008, 07:17:08 »
okay here's a link, apparently 90% of the worlds leading scientists agree that we are the cause of global warming.
http://www.sciam.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=99FB6D4E-E7F2-99DF-3030E2BDAB849DC5
this isn't crack pot science either, Scientific American is PRIMO science!  Unless you think god put fossils in the ground to test us.....

When I was young Scientific American contained actual science, usually real papers rewritten for a wider audience and it was a valued resource of detailed information for me. These days it's the science equivalent of Popular Mechanics with interesting but shallow articles. You get about the same depth in local newspapers when they cover a topic. The editors have fallen into the same trap as any opinionated loudmouth: just because they are well read on a topic they think they are an authority on it.
It is not worth an intelligent man's time to be in the majority.  By definition, there are already enough people to do that. --  G.H. Hardy

Online Thucydides

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #986 on: August 05, 2008, 09:48:58 »
Scientists are people like the rest of us (movies like "Rocky Horror Picture Show" notwithstanding), and can fall into groupthink, respond to positive and negative pressures (i.e. what fields are being funded), or just make mistakes. Read this all the way through and you will see a prediction made on the basis of limited observations. You will also see something refreshing, which is a real debate on the issue.

There is a zinger, but I will leave you to find it!  ;)
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Online Old Sweat

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #987 on: August 05, 2008, 10:06:03 »
Good'un, Thuc. I was surprised to find that BB was still alive, until I got to the top of the fourth column.

Online Old Sweat

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #988 on: August 05, 2008, 14:56:10 »
The following article is reproduced under the fair comments section of the Copyright Act.

From The Sunday TimesAugust 3, 2008

Captains’ logs yield climate clues
Records kept by Nelson and Cook are shedding light on climate change
Jonathan Leake
Britain's great seafaring tradition is to provide a unique insight into modern climate change, thanks to thousands of Royal Navy logbooks that have survived from the 17th century onwards.

The logbooks kept by every naval ship, ranging from Nelson’s Victory and Cook’s Endeavour down to the humblest frigate, are emerging as one of the world’s best sources for long-term weather data. The discovery has been made by a group of British academics and Met Office scientists who are seeking new ways to plot historic changes in climate.

“This is a treasure trove,” said Dr Sam Willis, a maritime historian and author who is affiliated with Exeter University’s Centre for Maritime Historical Studies.

“Ships’ officers recorded air pressure, wind strength, air and sea temperature and other weather conditions. From those records scientists can build a detailed picture of past weather and climate.”

A preliminary study of 6,000 logbooks has produced results that raise questions about climate change theories. One paper, published by Dr Dennis Wheeler, a Sunderland University geographer, in the journal The Holocene, details a surge in the frequency of summer storms over Britain in the 1680s and 1690s.

Many scientists believe storms are a consequence of global warming, but these were the coldest decades of the so-called Little Ice Age that hit Europe from about 1600 to 1850.

Wheeler and his colleagues have since won European Union funding to extend this research to 1750. This shows that during the 1730s, Europe underwent a period of rapid warming similar to that recorded recently – and which must have had natural origins.

Hints of such changes are already known from British records, but Wheeler has found they affected much of the north Atlantic too, and he has traced some of the underlying weather systems that caused it. His research will be published in the journal Climatic Change.

The ships’ logs have also shed light on extreme weather events such as hurricanes. It is commonly believed that hurricanes form in the eastern Atlantic and track westwards, so scientists were shocked in 2005 when Hurricane Vince instead moved northeast to hit southern Spain and Portugal.

Many interpreted this as a consequence of climate change; but Wheeler, along with colleagues at the University of Madrid, used old ships’ logs to show that this had also happened in 1842, when a hurricane followed the same trajectory into Andalusia.

The potential of Royal Navy ships’ logs to offer new insights into historic climate change was spotted by Wheeler after he began researching weather conditions during famous naval battles. Later, as global warming moved up the scientific agenda, he and others realised that the same data could shed light on historic climate change.

He said: “British archives contain more than 100,000 Royal Navy logbooks from around 1670 to 1850 alone. They are a stunning resource.”

Most of these earlier documents contain verbal descriptions of weather rather than numerical data, because ships lacked the instruments to take numerical readings. However, Wheeler and his colleagues found early Royal Navy officers recorded weather in consistent language.

“It means we can deduce numerical values for wind strength and direction, temperature and rainfall,” he said. The information will ultimately contribute to the International Comprehensive Ocean-Atmos-phere Data Set, a global database maintained by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, a US government agency.

Wheeler makes clear he has no doubts about modern human-induced climate change. He said: “Global warming is a reality, but what our data shows is that climate science is complex and that it is wrong to take particular events and link them to CO2 emissions. These records will give us a much clearer picture of what is really happening.”

The Met Office has also set up a project, part-funded by Defra, the environment ministry, to study 900 logbooks kept by the East India Company on voyages between Europe and the Far East between 1780 and 1840. Its vessels carried thermometers and barometers so the data is of higher quality.

Faced with logs taken over so many voyages, the researchers have had to be selective. One of the most avid recorders of such data was Nelson himself, whose personal logbook records the air pressure and other readings he took up to several times daily.

Explorers with a weather eye

Britain’s explorers left vital records of weather around the world

— Robert FitzRoy was captain of HMS Beagle on two expeditions in the 1820s and 1830s. Charles Darwin was his passenger

— Vice-Admiral Horatio Nelson’s voyages took him to the Arctic, the East and West Indies and the Mediterranean before his death at Trafalgar in 1805

— Captain James Cook mapped much of Canada and the Pacific in the 1760s and 1770s

If nothing else, it certainly is thought provoking.


Online Thucydides

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #989 on: August 25, 2008, 05:28:29 »
So who exactly is supposed to save us from "Climate Change"?

http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2008/08/carpooling-good.html

Quote
Carpooling: Good for the environment, too bad it's illegal

In many cases, the goals of environmentalism and capitalism coincide. Take, for instance, the fact that less packaging is a savings for a company. So, too, are those new instructions in hotel rooms: "To save the environment, we only wash those towels that you leave on the floor, letting us know that they're dirty."

If it saves money, great. Things get cheaper, people become wealthier. Life is good, and everyone is happy.

Environmentalists have also become very entrepreneurial. The guy who founded Whole Foods, for example, is a libertarian. And there's no shortage of clever companies popping up here and there trying to accomplish two things at once--make money, and save the environment.

Too bad the state is always getting in the way.

Did you know we have a car company in Canada? It's all electric, good for the environment. It's also illegal in every province except British Columbia. From a Western Standard story on the ZENN (Zero Emissions, No Noise) vehicle:

"Until late last year, Transport Canada stated that the ZENN did not meet Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standards and it was only after the CBC aired a story about this egregious government oversight that the ZENN was cleared for sale. But the regulatory barriers to be cleared were far from over; after being approved for sale in Canada the ZENN now needs to be approved for operation in each individual province. Since British Columbia approved the operation of ZENN cars in 2000, no other provinces have followed suit."

And now comes word that a nifty new carpooling service called PickUpPal is going to get the boot in Ontario.

Why?

It violates Ontario's Public Vehicles Act!

Quoting now: "No person shall arrange or offer to arrange transportation of passengers by means of a public vehicle operated by another person unless that other person is the holder of an operating licence authorizing that other person to perform the transportation."

Of course, it was a competitor who raised the objection. Trentway-Wagar, a bus company, is pushing to ban PickUpPal in Ontario. And that's what regulations are for, generally: Make sure the current crop of businesses don't have to actually outcompete competitors by offering cheaper or better service. They can just lean on a stack of regulations to keep profit margins high.

So we sign the Kyoto Accord, we create mountains of new regulations, provide special lanes for carpoolers, encourage and incentivize recycling, make lightbulbs illegal, and still can't get an electric car or a bunch of people to carpool. Maybe, instead of thinking of brand spanking new regulations, some of us should start looking at removing and eliminating some of the old ones first.

Hey, you never know, you might save the earth in the process.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Online Colin P

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #990 on: August 27, 2008, 16:09:58 »
You realize of course they will draft a new regulation to ensure no other regulations, Acts conflict, of course the new regulation will conflict with the charter. I spent half of the last 9 years guiding proponents through the maze so they can build their project without conflicting to much with all the conflict Acts and regs.

Online Thucydides

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #991 on: September 02, 2008, 12:00:47 »
Warmer climates are not only better for people, apparently:

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/070625_penguin.htm

Quote
Ancient giant penguins liked it hot

June 25, 2007
Courtesy PNAS
and World Science staff

New fos­sil finds are shed­ding light on the strange world of an­cient pen­guins, some of which were as tall as many hu­mans.

Jul­ia Clarke of North Car­o­li­na State Un­ivers­ity in Ra­leigh, N.C. and col­leagues dis­cov­ered skulls and other bones of two ex­tinct pen­guin spe­cies in coast­al Pe­ru.

Artists con­cep­tion of the late Eo­cene gi­ant pen­guin Icadyptes salasi (right) and the mid­dle Eo­cene Pe­rudyptes de­vriesi (left) are shown to scale with the on­ly ex­tant pen­guin in­hab­it­ing Pe­ru, Sphenis­cus hum­bolti (cen­ter). Icadyptes salasi is said to be the first gi­ant pen­guin known from a com­plete skull. (Image Cour­te­sy PNAS)

The smaller of the two, Pe­ru­dyp­tes de­v­rie­si, was around the size of today’s King Pen­guins, re­search­ers said. These are about three feet (90 cm) tall.

The larg­er of the two, Ica­dyp­tes sa­lasi, would have been fear­some to en­coun­ter at over five feet (1.5 m) tall, and with a long beak, sci­ent­ists said. The sur­prise, they added, was that pen­guins—and large ones in par­tic­u­lar—would live in such a hot place and time as these ones did, near the equa­tor.

Pa­le­on­tol­ogists gen­er­ally as­sume that spe­cies mov­ing from cold to warm cli­mates evolve to be smaller, as the balmy tem­per­a­tures elim­i­nate the need for a large body to con­serve heat.

Clarke’s team dat­ed the bones to the mid­dle and late Eo­cene pe­ri­od, 42 and 36 mil­lion years ago, re­spec­tively—one of the Earth’s warmest eras in the past 65 mil­lion years.

Pa­le­on­tol­ogists previously thought pen­guins arrived so near the equa­tor only four to eight mil­lion years ago, dur­ing a much cool­er time, Clarke and col­leagues said. Penguins are thought to have evolved at least 65 mil­lion years ago from the same an­ces­tral stock as alba­trosses, shear­waters and petrels.

Sa­id to be the first com­plete known skull of a gi­ant pen­guin, from the new­found spe­cies Icadyptes salasi. A skull of Sphenis­cus hum­bolti, the on­ly spe­cies in­hab­it­ing Pe­ru to­day, is shown for com­par­i­son. The scale ba­r at low­er right rep­re­sents a length of 1 cm. (Pho­to cour­tesy Dan­iel Ksep­ka.)

As ar­rest­ing as the sight of giant pen­guins might be, the new­found pen­guins weren’t the big­gest known to ev­o­lu­tion­ary his­to­ry.

Many an­cient pen­guins were out­sized by mod­ern stan­dards. Ex­tinct pen­guins were an es­ti­mat­ed 50 per­cent taller on av­er­age than liv­ing ones.

The tallest known, An­thro­por­nis nor­den­skjoel­di, found on Sey­mour Is­land in Ant­arc­ti­ca, stood at 170 cm (five feet sev­en inches). Pachy­dyptes pon­dero­sus, found in New Zea­land, was only slightly short­er, but as heavy as an adult hu­man male.

But the newfound Icadyptes salasi, of the late Eocene, is the first gi­ant pen­guin known from a com­plete skull, re­search­ers said. The stu­dy appears in the advance on­line edi­tions of the re­search jour­nal Pro­ceed­ings of the Na­tion­al Aca­d­emy of Scien­ces this week.

Imagine your tropical vacation interrupted by hordes of aggressive, 5'+ penguins taking over the beach and you might be thankful for today's relatively cool climate......
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline Kat Stevens

    non atrocitate, non clementia mutabatur.

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #992 on: September 02, 2008, 13:17:54 »
+3, and frost this morning, early September.  I'm busy looking around the shop for Styrofoam and used oil to burn.
Apparently, a "USUAL SUSPECT"

plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

If a million people do a stupid thing, it's STILL a stupid thing.

Dimensions will always be expressed in the least useable term, velocity for example, will be expressed in furlongs per fortnight.

 Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats

 “Look here, Mars! Look here, Mars! I am Titus Pullo! These bloody men are my gift to you.”

Offline RangerRay

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #993 on: September 02, 2008, 20:33:23 »
+6C this morning here...should be bloody warmer here at this time of year!

 >:(
"I like pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals." - Sir Winston Churchill

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #994 on: September 08, 2008, 02:50:39 »
+3, and frost this morning, early September.  I'm busy looking around the shop for Styrofoam and used oil to burn.

- Seriously?  Styrofoam and used oil?  Whoooaaaa.... Ya don't want the neighbour's kid fixing the flashing around your chimney when your shoveling THAT stuff into the Jotul.
"Disarming the Canadian public is part of the new humanitarian social agenda."   - Foreign Affairs Minister Lloyd Axeworthy at a Gun Control conference in Oslo, Norway in 1998.


"I didn’t feel that it was an act of violence; you know, I felt that it was an act of liberation, that’s how I felt you know." - Ann Hansen, Canadian 'Urban Guerrilla'(one of the "Squamish Five")

Online Thucydides

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #995 on: September 29, 2008, 10:40:30 »
Keeping nice and toasty in the Nordic nations:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2677486.ece?service=print

Quote
Gulf Stream here to stay

The Gulf Stream, that almost mythical flow of warm seas that makes Norway and a few other Nordic countries liveable, isn't about to disappear any time soon. New research contradicts earlier theories that it might.

Cold water is still heading south through the Gulf Stream, climate researchers say.

PHOTO: HÅKON MOSVOLD LARSEN

Climate researchers have re-examined studies that indicated the Gulf Stream was weakening. It's long been a source of warmer seas flowing north through the Atlantic, and it also sends colder waters south.

The Gulf Stream flows roughly from the east coast of South America, around the Gulf of Mexico and across the Atlantic, where it heads north, east of Ireland, over towards Norway and around Iceland, before heading due south again.

The Danish Meteorological Institute (DMI) reports that several observations in recent years suggested the circulation of the Gulf Stream had weakened, possibly because of global warming. Studies, the institute noted, had suggested that the flow of cold water south was down by half.

A group of researchers from Denmark, the Faeroe Islands, Germany and Norway thus started paying closer attention to the Gulf Stream, and now they're releasing conclusions that can leave climate researchers breathing a sigh of relief.

"It hasn't only been possible to show that the currents instead have maintained a surprisingly constant strength during the last 50 years, but we can also point out where earlier signs of weakness were misleading," said Steffen M Olsen of DMI.

The researchers have studied new and historic measures of the Gulf Stream’s strength over the undersea ridges between Iceland and Greenland.

Olsen cautioned, however, that changes may still occur. "We can’t rule that out," Olsen wrote in an article publishing the group's findings. The risk of a collapse in the warm circulation of the Atlantic just "isn't as probable in the near future as we had feared."
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline JBG

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #996 on: October 19, 2008, 19:02:54 »
+6C this morning here...should be bloody warmer here at this time of year!

 >:(
I am totally dubiuos of any claims of global warming, other than that generated by numerous natural cycles. One snowstorm or cold morning is not the proof, but reams of actual data does. Note that almost all of the alarms on AGW are prognostications.
If it's us or them, I choose us.

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #997 on: November 13, 2008, 10:50:03 »
Bus companies doing their part for global warming and the environment (heh)

http://thesecretsofvancouver.com/wordpress/ontario-stops-sharing/environment

Quote
No More Ride Sharing
Bus firm wins against Pickup Pal

An Ontario bus company has convinced the transport board that ride-sharing companies — such as Pickup Pal — operate illegally.

Pickup Pal matches up people who are heading to the same destination.

John Stewart, CEO of Pickup Pal, said the goal of the concept is to reduce greenhouse gases and air pollution by getting more cars off the road.

In Ontario the only way you can ride with someone is if you meet ALL of the following extremely impractical set of specific criteria:

    -You must travel from home to work only
    -You cannot cross municipal boundaries – (Live outside the city and drive in – sorry you cannot share the ride with your neighbour)
    -You must ride with the same driver each day
    -You must pay the driver no more frequently than weekly

PickupPal was charged and fined for facilitating a ride from Toronto to Montreal for $60. The crime – a PickupPal member crossed municipal boundaries. They were fined $11,336.07.

Trentway-Wagar, the local bus company, says its beef was simply that it is unfair they have to meet labor, environmental, and equipment standards to haul passengers around when services like PickupPal can arrange rides without doing any of that.

The issue is not only that PickupPal’s site allows drivers and passengers to connect for carpooling. While it is up to the users to determine compensation, apparently the site “does nothing to check on insurance, roadworthiness of the vehicles, driving history, or anything else.”

This worried the Highway Transport Board most.

Good thing they are looking out for the folks.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.

Offline recceguy

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #998 on: November 13, 2008, 14:55:26 »
Bus companies doing their part for global warming and the environment (heh)

http://thesecretsofvancouver.com/wordpress/ontario-stops-sharing/environment


More pearls of wisdom from Moronto, the arsehole of Bantario. It's no wonder retards like McSquinty and 'his blondness' Miller can find work here. ::) I think we should nuke that sphincter, commonly referred to as the 905 belt, and solve one of Canada's biggest problems. ;)
"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." 2007 winning entry, Texas A&M University - most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

DISCLAIMER - my opinion may cause manginal irritation.

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Re: The Global Warming Super Thread
« Reply #999 on: November 21, 2008, 07:32:03 »
Another (real) scientist speaks out:

http://www.towntopics.com/nov1908/other3.php

Quote
Freeman Dyson Debunks Dire Forecasts on Global Warming and Other Tenets
Ellen Gilbert

Freeman Dyson gets around. Last Wednesday, for example, the 85-year-old “retired” physicist regaled a lunchtime audience at the Nassau Club with his “heretical” ideas about global warming. Just a few hours later he could be found once again sharing his thoughts on global warming, as well as on intelligent design, nuclear warfare, extraterrestrial life, and HAR-1 (a DNA component that distinguishes human beings from other animals) with a standing-room-only crowd at Labyrinth Books.

Mr. Dyson’s credentials are venerable: the British-born scholar received a BA from the University of Cambridge in 1945, and was, from 1953 until his retirement in 1994, a physics professor at the Institute for Advanced Study. The absence of a PhD in his resume has been more than compensated for by the 21 honorary degrees he has received over the years.

He seems happiest, however, when he is working at being the rebel, and indeed, one of his books, a compilation of essays published earlier in The New York Review of Books, is called The Scientist as Rebel. Wearing an effusively-colored tie that set off his gray suit, Mr. Dyson began his talk at the Nassau Club by encouraging the audience to interrupt him as he spoke, since, he declared, “it’s much more fun to have an argument than do a monologue.”

In the absence of audience interruptions, Mr. Dyson had an argument anyway with the scores of people (like Al Gore) who weren’t present to defend their belief in the dire consequences of global warming. (“There’s no accounting for human folly,” Mr. Dyson said when asked about Mr. Gore’s Nobel Prize.) Saying that on a recent trip he and his wife found Greenlanders to be delighted with their warmer climate and increased tourism, Mr. Dyson suggested that representing “local warming by a global average is misleading.” In his comments at both the Nassau Club and Labyrinth, he decried the use of computer modeling to make “tremendously dogmatic” predictions about worldwide trends, without acknowledging the “messy, muddy real world” and the non-climatic effects of increased carbon dioxide. “There is no substitute for widely-conducted field operations over a long time,” he told the Nassau Club audience, citing the “enormous gaps in knowledge and sparseness of observation” that characterize the work of global warming experts.

Mr. Dyson’s fearless commentary continued later at Labyrinth, where, standing for over an hour and without a microphone, he delighted a full house by declaring the existence of 10,000 string theorists to be “sociologically dangerous” (“one thousand would be enough”), and balked at an audience member’s query about what he would do with a $700 billion grant. “When science gets rich it becomes political,” he observed. As an example of the most expensive efforts not necessarily being the most worthwhile, he pointed to CERN’s Large Hadron Collider in Geneva, the subject of much recent attention, noting that it was designed to identify only certain particles, losing much potentially interesting information in the process. “The important things are the ones you don’t expect,” he noted.
Dagny, this is not a battle over material goods. It's a moral crisis, the greatest the world has ever faced and the last. Our age is the climax of centuries of evil. We must put an end to it, once and for all, or perish - we, the men of the mind. It was our own guilt. We produced the wealth of the world - but we let our enemies write its moral code.