Topic: Revitalization of Corrections Canada

[RN PRN]

I am personally sick and tired of persons within the corrections system, who have been convicted of a crime and sent to jail having more privileges than those law abiding citizens.

Advocacy groups like the Fry society ensuring that each cell has a cable TV, internet access in some cases, free food, the list goes on is sickening.
How many out there know that yesterday and today were voting days in the federal and provincial systems. These are people who have thumbed their noses at law, government and society in general but yet they still have the "right" to have a voice as to who governs this great country for the next few years???

Here is a concept ladies and gentlemen, why not establish a system like the DB for the rest of Canada's misbehaving members. Perhaps the chain gang should be brought back, let them do some productive work for a change. We are paying the bill, it stands to reason that we should get some value for our monies.

Take for example the following:

Why can't our Canada do something like this here - instead of the heat, perhaps they would enjoy the cold temps.
I bet there would be less and less crime.

 

Here is a law enforcement person that "knows" how to treat criminals!
He just keeps getting elected, over and over!!

TO THOSE OF YOU NOT FAMILIAR WITH JOE ARPAIO

    HE IS THE MARICOPA ARIZONA COUNTY SHERIFF

       AND HE KEEPS GETTING ELECTED OVER AND OVER.



THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY:

Sheriff Joe Arpaio (in Arizona) who created the "tent city jail":

He has jail meals down to 40 cents a serving and charges the inmates for them.

He stopped smoking and porno magazines in the jails. Took away their weights Cut off all but "G" movies.

He started chain gangs so the inmates could do free work on county and city projects.

Then he started chain gangs for women so he wouldn't get sued for discrimination.

He took away cable TV until he found out there was a federal court order that required cable TV for jails. So he hooked! up the cable TV again only let in the Disney channel and the weather channel.

When asked why the weather channel he replied, so they will know how hot it's gonna be while they are working on my chain gangs.

He cut off coffee since it has zero nutritional value.

When the inmates complained, he told them, "This isn't the Ritz/Carlton If you don't like it, don't come back."

He bought Newt Gingrich' lecture series on videotape that he pipes into the jails.




More on the Arizona Sheriff:

With temperatures being even hotter than usual in Phoenix (116 degrees just set a new record), the Associated Press reports: About 2,000 inmates living in a barbed-wire-surrounded tent encampment at the Maricopa County Jail have been given permission to strip down to their government-issued pink boxer shorts.

On Wednesday, hundreds of men wearing boxers were either curled up on their bunk beds or chatted in the tents, which reached 138 degrees inside the week before.

Many were also swathed in wet, pink towels as sweat collected on their chests and dripped down to their pink socks.

"It feels like we are in a furnace," said James Zanzot, an inmate who has lived in the tents for 1 year. "It's inhumane."

Joe Arpaio, the tough-guy sheriff who created the tent city and long ago started making his prisoners wear pink, and eat bologna sandwiches, is not one bit sympathetic He said Wednesday that he told all of the inmates: "It's 120 degrees in Iraq and our soldiers are living in tents too, and they have to wear full battle gear, but they didn't commit any crimes, so shut your damned mouths!"

Way to go, Sheriff! Maybe if all prisons were like this one there would be a lot less crime and/or repeat offenders. Criminals should be punished for their crimes - not live in luxury until it's time for their parole, only to go out and commit another crime so they can get back in to live on taxpayers money and enjoy things taxpayers can't afford to have for themselves.


Sheriff Joe was just reelected Sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona.

 Rant off...

Discuss

[mo-litia]

We need a thousand Sheriff Joe's in Canada...actually what we need is a system of elected law enforcement leaders and judges who would be sensitive to the will of the people (and their continued employment) while they are considering punishments for the criminal element in this society.

Consider the type of sentence Karla Homolka would have received from an elected judge who would have been sensitive to the public emotions about her horrible crimes. I highly doubt that she would have gotten the farce of a sentence that she received from a judge who-because they are not elected-was not concerned with public opinion.

And, yes; I DO SUPPORT CAPITAL PUNISHMENT!   

[Bruce Monkhouse]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,18217.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,32133.0.html

[RN PRN]

And here I thought I did a pretty good search before posting.

My bad

GF

[Glorified Ape]

We need a thousand Sheriff Joe's in Canada...actually what we need is a system of elected law enforcement leaders and judges who would be sensitive to the will of the people (and their continued employment) while they are considering punishments for the criminal element in this society.

Consider the type of sentence Karla Homolka would have received from an elected judge who would have been sensitive to the public emotions about her horrible crimes. I highly doubt that she would have gotten the farce of a sentence that she received from a judge who-because they are not elected-was not concerned with public opinion.

And, yes; I DO SUPPORT CAPITAL PUNISHMENT!   

The public's emotions and feelings should be immaterial to a judge rendering his verdict or sentencing. If the public wants a sentence or law, have the legislature set it. Justice is supposed to be impartial and blind, not held in the sway of a fickle populous and its whimsy.

[mo-litia]

The public's emotions and feelings should be immaterial to a judge rendering his verdict or sentencing. If the public wants a sentence or law, have the legislature set it. Justice is supposed to be impartial and blind, not held in the sway of a fickle populous and its whimsy.

Obviously.

My point was that by using elected representatives in these areas, there would be a tendency NOT to impose the minimum sentence where a more severe one would be appropriate.

I am sure most informed people can agree that Canada's 'justice' system is notoriously soft on our criminals, often at the expense of public safety.  Some criminals can not be rehabilitated and it is a fallacy to suggest otherwise.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

RN PRN,

Most users do a good job of trying to search, however the search button on the top right is @$%@ [IMO],  try an experiment, put the sherriff's last name in the "advanced search" located after hitting the search button somewhere in the middle of the top "tabs".........works waaaay better.

PS, I didn't  post the links with no text to show "a bad", just that I was on my way out to vote in the advance poll.......done!!

[Michael Dorosh]

My point was that by using elected representatives in these areas, there would be a tendency NOT to impose the minimum sentence where a more severe one would be appropriate.

What credentials and/or evidence do you have to back up such a claim?  Not saying you're unqualified to comment, I would just be genuinely interested if this is only a gut reaction on your part or if it has some basis in scientific or statistical fact.

[the_midge]

Well, it sounds all fine and dandy from an emotional, 'appeal-to-vengeance' type viewpoint.

Is there any evidence that these implementations are successfully deterring would-be criminals?

I mean, we're not talking about minimum sentencing here. We're talking about prison conditions.

[mo-litia]

What credentials and/or evidence do you have to back up such a claim?  Not saying you're unqualified to comment, I would just be genuinely interested if this is only a gut reaction on your part or if it has some basis in scientific or statistical fact.

There is a plethora of evidence that suggests harsh prison conditions and tougher sentencing guidelines result in lower crime and recidivism rates.  To keep on track with the theme of this thread I was easily able to find that Sheriff Arpaio is responsible for a recidivism rate of 16 % at his 'tent city' jails.  This is in comparison to the national US average of about 85 %.

http://www.policeone.com/writers/columnists/24Seven/articles/113956/

Seems like the ONLY people complaining about this man's policies are criminal dirtbags, and bleeding heart liberals who would probably soil THEIR pink underwear if they were ever on the inside of a prison.  Sheriff Arpaio has got his priorities in line, which is why he is so popular in his jurisdiction that he faced NO opponents in his second sherriff's election. 

Obviously, with a high-profile police officer and the existing liberal-friendly media climate that exists today there has been some unflattering news gathered on Sheriff Arpaio and his policies.  In the intrests of keeping this debate objective, I'll provide links to two of the most well known anti-Sheriff Arpaio site on the net.  They are:

A website for 'Mothers Against Arpaio'.  It appears some women get upset when they realize that little Johnny's in a tough jail while nicely overlooking the fact why he's there in the first place-he's a bloody criminal!

http://www.mothersagainstarpaio.com/

And-I love this one-a site that's been on-line bashing Sheriff Arpaio since 1998.  If you'll look at the bottom right of the homepage, you'll realize that the site is nothing more than a platform for Arpaio's political opponents to try and get elected into Sheriff Arpaio's job.  (They failed.)

http://arpaio.com/

There is a lot of debate regarding this man, but I'll let you decide who to support; a hugely popular sheriff who drastically lowered crime and recidivism rates, or, those who believe in criminal's 'rights' so strongly they would tie our police officer's hands together and then stand back and laugh while the police try to do their jobs. 

I think I'll throw in my lot with the cops over the kind of people who would applaud Karla Holmoka's release at the end of her short sentence and call that justice.

Elected law enforcement is an very effective means of keeping crime down.  If the cop is a thud-%$@&, they'll be out on their *** in no time flat.   Of course, that's why we'll never see it in Canada; the politically correct left-wingers would have a collective conniption fit if their darling criminal 'wayward members of society' were to be subjected to something so 'brutal' as surplus meals (of the same nourishing type fed to the homeless) and **GASP  ** a chain gang where, by the fruit of their labours, they could actually contribute some of their otherwise worthless lives back into law-abiding society.

Thanks, Mikey-I've missed debating with you. 

[xFusilier]

When you compare the goings on in Arizona, to Corrections Canada, you also have to remember that you could be comparing apples to oranges.  I'm sure someone like Muskrat89 can correct me if I'm wrong but County gaol's in the US generally incarcerate those people convicted of petty crimes, although this probably varies from state to state.  Offenders in the Federal Corrections system have all been convicted of indictable offences.  I highly doubt that anyone is serving a long custodial sentence for a serious crime in the Maricopa County Digger.

I would be interested to see the recidivism rates for individuals that have been in such a custodial arrangement.  I futher doubt that such an arragement would be considered constitutional in Canada.

In the intereset of providing some balance to this debate I give you the following http://www.arpaio.com/, as with all other things on the Al Gore designed internet, the truth probably lies somewhere in between.

[48Highlander]

I would be interested to see the recidivism rates for individuals that have been in such a custodial arrangement.  I futher doubt that such an arragement would be considered constitutional in Canada.

Is that opinion based on anything?

[Michael Dorosh]

Thanks, Mikey-I've missed debating with you. 

Nothing to debate, really, just looking for some sources - you've provided some good ones, for which I thank you.  I know recidivism is lower still in military prisons, but I always thought that was a statistical fluke because some guys get out altogether after a serious charge...hence no chance to reoffend....

[Phillman]

Just remember one thing: A person is sent to prison as punishment, not for punishment. It is believed that taking away someone's freedom is enough punishment.

[mo-litia]

Nothing to debate, really, just looking for some sources - you've provided some good ones, for which I thank you.  I know recidivism is lower still in military prisons, but I always thought that was a statistical fluke because some guys get out altogether after a serious charge...hence no chance to reoffend....

I'm in agreement with you on this.

[48Highlander]

Just remember one thing: A person is sent to prison as punishment, not for punishment. It is believed that taking away someone's freedom is enough punishment.

Beleived by whom?

And what freedoms?

And where are you getting this information from?

[mo-litia]

Just remember one thing: A person is sent to prison as punishment, not for punishment. It is believed that taking away someone's freedom is enough punishment.

Yes and no; losing one's freedom would be bad, I'll be the first to agree with you on that.  But when you have a prison system that is so soft that it provides many of the inmates in it with a higher standard of living-and in Canada's case, a guard staff that is hobbled by political directives-much of the incentive to avoid returning to prison is negated.

I don't think inmates should be chained to a wall in a dungeon for the duration of their sentences.  I do believe that every attempt should be made to assist prisoners in a successful transition back into society.  What I do not agree with is pampering these criminals to the point that when they are faced with the challenges of real life that they start to long for the comfort and familiarity of life in prison.

[xFusilier]

Is that opinion based on anything?

s.12 of the Charter

[RN PRN]

According to the Charter

"(2) Every citizen of Canada and every person who has the status of a permanent resident of Canada has the right

a) to move to and take up residence in any province; and
b) to pursue the gaining of a livelihood in any province. "

6.(2)a)

and 6. (1) Every citizen of Canada has the right to enter, remain in and leave Canada

This can be infringed on when a member is incarcerated for going against society.
Why can't others be infringed on in the same way such as:

3. Every citizen of Canada has the right to vote in an election of members of the House of Commons or of a legislative assembly and to be qualified for membership therein.

Who says that Cable TV, BBQs, access to a law library, internet are "rights" that must be upheld in our correctional facilities.

IMHO If you make the experience distasteful, there will be a lesser desire by the population to return once released.

[xFusilier]

Considering that minimum sentences, were ruled to be unconstitutional (prohibition of cruel and inhuman punishment) it is highly doubtful that the courts would uphold the practice of requiring inmates to live in tents, wear pink and eat baloney sandwiches.  You may make prison as distasteful as posible, but remember that all inmates have right of redress to the courts, and there are any number of lawers whom I'd hazzard to guess would love to argue this one to the supreme court.

[the_midge]

Who says that Cable TV, BBQs, access to a law library, internet are "rights" that must be upheld in our correctional facilities.

I don't think anyone has claimed that those were constitutional rights, but rather the other extreme posed by Sherriff Arpaio might be a problem.

IMHO there needs to be something in between.

[Glorified Ape]

I was always under the impression that many of the concessions made to inmates (TV, internet, etc) were, in part, an attempt to create an environment more easily controlled and less violent. I'd be interested to see the figures on intra-prison crime, especially violent crime, in Canada's system vs. that of the US.

I wouldn't mind Bruce's input on the idea (IE better living conditions = more easily/less violently managed inmates). From what I understand (taken from a convict friend's point of view, not a guard's, mind you), the prisoners have a substantial amount of input on matters within the prison. Again, maybe he was way out to lunch in his interpretation, which is why I'd like to hear from Bruce.

[48Highlander]

Considering that minimum sentences, were ruled to be unconstitutional (prohibition of cruel and inhuman punishment) it is highly doubtful that the courts would uphold the practice of requiring inmates to live in tents, wear pink and eat baloney sandwiches.  You may make prison as distasteful as posible, but remember that all inmates have right of redress to the courts, and there are any number of lawers whom I'd hazzard to guess would love to argue this one to the supreme court.

What the hell?  Living in Mod-tents and eating mass-produced tasteless food is considered "cruel and unusual punishment"?  Dude.  I'm SO suing the army....

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I don't have a whole lot of time tonight, but Ape is essentially correct. Since the days of floggin' and beancake are over, there needs to be someway to have control, and that would be the "extras" of which people speak.
Remember inmates "run" a jail, which is to say that without a mutual consent nothing can get done
[ cleaning, food preparation, etc]. We may have the "final" say, however the "final" option is always man, time and money consuming.....

And as for saying make them work, just what does one do when they say "hoop your forehead"?

A question for those whom have attended or worked in the DB,...what happens when a resident says "no"?

[xFusilier]

What the hell?  Living in Mod-tents and eating mass-produced tasteless food is considered "cruel and unusual punishment"?  Dude.  I'm SO suing the army....

Good luck with that, why not make it a class action suit, I'll sign up if you pay for the lawyer.