Topic: Afghan Detainee Mega Thread

[MCG]

…

At least one, and perhaps three, Afghan detainees “taken captive by the Canadian Forces appears to have been beaten while detained and interrogated by them,” alleges Amir Attaran, a University of Ottawa law professor,
…

Two separate probes are underway into a complaint that up to three prisoners suffered injuries while in the custody of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan, the Toronto Star has learned. 
…

The military is investigating a complaint that alleges prisoners were abused while in the custody of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan.  At least one, and as many as three, Afghan detainees "taken captive by the Canadian Forces appears to have been beaten while detained and interrogated by them," alleges University of Ottawa law professor Amir Attaran

So, some guys detained in a war have injuries and therefore it must be physical abuse after the capture?  I’m pretty sure that the police injure more people through the act of initially taking them under physical control in order to achieve the detention.  It is going to happen when you capture someone that fights/resists.

I should hope the good law professor has more information to go on. Otherwise he is just dragging the military through the mud for his own political/public reasons.  Can an the CF sue for liable damages when this flagrant allegation is shown to be baseless?

Scores of terrorist suspects captured by Canadians have disappeared into the murky netherworld of Afghan and American prisons, but Ottawa refuses to say what has happened to them or even if it knows whether any have been tried, charged, or released, or how they are treated. 

Why is the media making excitement over last years news item?  The media got all excited about this at the start of the 1 PPCIL tour, and the government put the policy on the internet.  Now we are going to recreate the scandal that wasn’t?

Watched him on Canada AM this morning being interviewed. A couple of his comments where interesting such as " as an academic researcher it is my job to investigate this given the beating death in Somalia".  …  Given the "cover up by DND in the Somalia affair this requires a open public inquiry."

So, as an academic, it is his job to stereotype the members of the CF as some community of villains and assume we are out to do evil across Afghanistan?

As mentioned elsewhere, I notice that they never mention the fate of any westerner who falls into their hands.

It does not matter.  We are better than those who would use torture & abuse against us.

[Colin P]

Well now that Liberals are out, they can attempt to smear the current government with this, but they better walk carefully or someone may look at a calender.

[3rd Herd]

So, some guys detained in a war have injuries and therefore it must be physical abuse after the capture?  I’m pretty sure that the police injure more people through the act of initially taking them under physical control in order to achieve the detention.  It is going to happen when you capture someone that fights/resists.

I should hope the good law professor has more information to go on. Otherwise he is just dragging the military through the mud for his own political/public reasons.  Can an the CF sue for liable damages when this flagrant allegation is shown to be baseless?
Why is the media making excitement over last years news item?  The media got all excited about this at the start of the 1 PPCIL tour, and the government put the policy on the internet.  Now we are going to recreate the scandal that wasn’t?
So, as an academic, it is his job to stereotype the members of the CF as some community of villains and assume we are out to do evil across Afghanistan?
It does not matter.  We are better than those who would use torture & abuse against us.

off the top of my head yes the CF can sue and has done so. A prime although dated example was the case against the Vancouver Sun for a series of articles published from the 13 to 16 of March in 1942(?). They won and I think received 300.00 in compensation from the paper.

[Kilo_302]

If they were "resisting arrest" after a combat operation, and all they got were a few buttstrokes, they were lucky. Then again, most commentators won't understand this.

[milnews.ca]

Only a slight tangent - I'm going to repeat a previous rant:

Why is it that people who "obtain" documents via Access to Information Act requests never feel we need to see the documents once they publish their stories?  Anyone?  Anyone?

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.....

[CrazyCanuck]

No matter what somebody does somebody else will criticize, some are just louder at it than others. They are usually in it for their own personal gain or because they have bad feelings to the organization or individual they wish to smear.
He just wants his 15 minutes of fame and in this country the people are 100% willing to give it to him. Who's the true heartless person here?

[garb811]

Only a slight tangent - I'm going to repeat a previous rant:

Why is it that people who "obtain" documents via Access to Information Act requests never feel we need to see the documents once they publish their stories?  Anyone?  Anyone?

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.....

I believe in many instances it is not in the interest of the persons who make a "scoop" via ATIP to personally release the documents as doing so would actually put their "scoop" into context and detract from the perceived newsworthiness of said "scoop".

Anyone can peruse the released documents for free by attending the Reading Room at Place de Ville, 17th Floor, Tower B, 112 Kent, Ottawa.  While I realize that it is a bit of a trek for you, it is an available option.  I've never tried it but if you might also be able to request that a hard copy be sent to you, although that might involve some $$.  Give them a call at (613) 992-9560 and ask.  Alternately, if there were any retired guys on the site who had nothing to do with their days, maybe they could wander down with a cup (or thermos) of coffee and spend a few days sifting through documents?

[milnews.ca]

I believe in many instances it is not in the interest of the persons who make a "scoop" via ATIP to personally release the documents as doing so would actually put their "scoop" into context and detract from the perceived newsworthiness of said "scoop".

Anyone can peruse the released documents for free by attending the Reading Room at Place de Ville, 17th Floor, Tower B, 112 Kent, Ottawa.  While I realize that it is a bit of a trek for you, it is an available option.  I've never tried it but if you might also be able to request that a hard copy be sent to you, although that might involve some $$.  Give them a call at (613) 992-9560 and ask.  Alternately, if there were any retired guys on the site who had nothing to do with their days, maybe they could wander down with a cup (or thermos) of coffee and spend a few days sifting through documents?

I've had experience asking DND for a copy of ATIP'ed material on CD-ROM (admittedly, it was for stuff on files I was working on directly for another federal dep't, so I can't guarantee quick service otherwise).  You're right about "documents" - one I was personally involved in had HUNDREDS of documents on the CD, but only had 3-4 lines quoted in the MSM story.

Speaking of MSM, here's some of the latest....

Commission to decide whether prisoner abuse hearings will be public
Mike Blanchfield, CanWest News Service, 6 Feb 07
Article Link

A military complaints commission is expected to decide by week’s end whether hearings into alleged prisoner abuse against Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan will be made public.  University of Ottawa professor Amir Attaran has called on the Military Police Complaints Commission to hold a full-blown public inquiry into allegations that Canadian troops may have abused three Afghans they arrested in southern Afghanistan this past April.  The law professor and human rights advocate filed the complaint based on documents he obtained under Access To Information.  Two other military investigations are underway. Both are being held behind closed doors.  A Board of Inquiry will hear evidence in-camera before delivering a public report that will be subject to Canada’s privacy laws. The military police’s National Investigation Service is also currently conducting its own investigation ....


Hillier orders full inquiry into treatment of detainees
Defence Minister O'Connor vows findings will be made public
PAUL KORING , DANIEL LEBLANC and GLORIA GALLOWAY, Globe & Mail, 7 Feb 07
Article Link - Permalink

Canada's top soldier, General Rick Hillier, ordered a full-blown board of inquiry yesterday to probe detainee treatment in Afghanistan as a political storm shook Ottawa over allegations that captives were beaten while in Canadian custody.  As Gen. Hillier and Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor unveiled multiple probes into the detainee-abuse allegations, they also rejected any comparison with Somalia, where elite Canadian troops tortured and killed a teenage captive more than a decade ago and senior officers were embroiled in a cover-up that eventually stained the entire military.  "This isn't Somalia," Mr. O'Connor said outside the House of Commons, when asked what assurances Canadians had that the government wouldn't close down an inquiry if embarrassing revelations emerged.  "Let's get the scale properly," he said, adding that the findings of both a criminal investigation by the military and the board of inquiry would be made public.  Gen. Hillier said: "We learned many lessons from Somalia. One is responsibility of the chain of command. One is thorough training and preparation."  The general said there was "an incredible hyper-sensitivity to handling detainees.  "We understand how important it is to get this right," he said, and added that "if there was a lapse in a process or policies, we'll find that out and correct it."  In Afghanistan, military police investigators will try to find the three Afghans who may have been beaten 10 months ago. Their whereabouts are unknown because once the Canadian military hands them over to Afghan authorities, it keeps no records of whether they are released or charged, or languish in prison ....


Military probes abuse allegations in Afghanistan
Gen. Rick Hillier says all prisoners handled humanely
CBC Online, 6 Feb 07
Article Link

Military officials are investigating allegations that three Afghan prisoners were abused while in the custody of Canadian soldiers.  The allegations come from a law professor at the University of Ottawa, Amir Attaran, based on government documents he obtained under the Access to Information Act.  Attaran said he received three documents from the Department of National Defence. They were handwritten reports from Canadian military police in the southern Afghan city of Kandahar.  The documents show three men were brought to military police by a single interrogator in one day with injuries to their faces, heads and upper bodies, he told the CBC on Tuesday ....


O'Connor says military probing abuse allegations
CTV.ca, 6 Feb 07
Article Link

Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor says an investigation is underway into allegations that prisoners were abused while in the custody of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan.  O'Connor said Tuesday that the information uncovered during those investigations will be made public.  But the defence minister stressed that the probes haven't concluded yet that the allegations are warranted.  If the complaints are indeed substantiated, corrective action will be taken, O'Connor pledged.  University of Ottawa law professor Amir Attaran lodged a complaint in a letter sent to the Military Police Complaints Commission last week.  Attaran alleges that at least one, and as many as three, Afghan detainees "taken captive by the Canadian Forces appears to have been beaten while detained and interrogated by them." ....

[alfie]

2 comments first, it only says "while under Candian control" which doesn't nessecarily mean that if anything did happen it was Canadians second , thankfuly the Liberals are not in power as we would likely lose the PPCLI or the RCR regiment over this.

[Bigmac]

        The manual for handling POWs is "Prisoner of war handling detainees and interogation and tactical questioning in international operations" dated 2004-08-01.  In it the first two steps for an individual to detain a POW is: 1. Disarm them  2. Apply first aid if necessary.
If all they get is a few scrapes and bruises when you disram them I think that is more than acceptable. If they resist harder and are injured further then we medics are obligated to treat them once they are detained. I guarantee Canadian soldiers treat captured combatants far better than most countries.

[niner domestic]

Attaran is getting more than his 15 minutes, here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,55639.0.html
and here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,44610.0.html
and here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,57138.0.html
and here:
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,53734.0.html

I'm seeing a pattern of a self appointed guardian of both our Canadian tax dollars and Canadian ethics.  Is he worth anymore of my time reading his treatises of wrongs? Nope.  With all due respect to my learned friend, this is not the way to meet the publish or perish requirements of tenure nor is it sitting well with me that a lawyer, albeit a law professor, is attempting to drum up business - his demeanor with respects to his advocacy of the alledged prisoners if fraught with suspicion - he should know that attempting to plead on behalf of a straw client is a huge no no.   

[stfx_monty]

I would like to echo the sentiments regarding Mr. Attaran's motives. That being said, I think the military needs to take a look and seen to be taking a look. It will cost money, but it's a worthwhile investment.  Nothing like a Royal Commission, just a public inquiry that can establish what happened.

[Haggis]

Abuse?  Injured during capture in a combat operation? 

On CBC Newsworld this morning, retired MGen Lew McKenzie was quoted as saying "the fact is that I would guesstimate that least 50% of the players in the Super Bowl last Sunday had more injuries to them than these guys that were trying to escape".

Context is a great thing for a journalist to have.

[Bobbyoreo]

Whats abuse when it comes to prisoners and war. I bruise..cut...I dont understand. I think its good that they are investigating it but even if they find nothing was done wrong by our troops...its still wont be enough for people. They'll just say the Forces are covering it up.

[niner domestic]

Just so folks know what is expected of a lawyer when advocating a cause, here's the commentary set out by the Law Society of Upper Canada on criticizing a Tribunal:

4.06 THE LAWYER AND THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Encouraging Respect for the Administration of Justice

4.06 (1) A lawyer shall encourage public respect for and try to improve the administration of justice.

Commentary
 
The obligation outlined in the rule is not restricted to the lawyer's professional activities but is a general responsibility resulting from the lawyer's position in the community. A lawyer's responsibilities are greater than those of a private citizen. A lawyer should take care not to weaken or destroy public confidence in legal institutions or authorities by irresponsible allegations. The lawyer in public life should be particularly careful in this regard because the mere fact of being a lawyer will lend weight and credibility to public statements. Yet for the same reason, a lawyer should not hesitate to speak out against an injustice.

The admission to and continuance in the practice of law implies on the part of a lawyer a basic commitment to the concept of equal justice for all within an open, ordered, and impartial system. However, judicial institutions will not function effectively unless they command the respect of the public, and, because of changes in human affairs and imperfections in human institutions, constant efforts must be made to improve the administration of justice and thereby maintain public respect for it.

 Criticizing Tribunals - Although proceedings and decisions of courts and tribunals are properly subject to scrutiny and criticism by all members of the public, including lawyers, judges and members of tribunals are often prohibited by law or custom from defending themselves. Their inability to do so imposes special responsibilities upon lawyers. First, a lawyer should avoid criticism that is petty, intemperate, or unsupported by a bona fide belief in its real merit, bearing in mind that in the eyes of the public, professional knowledge lends weight to the lawyer's judgments or criticism. Second, if a lawyer has been involved in the proceedings, there is the risk that any criticism may be, or may appear to be, partisan rather than objective. Third, where a tribunal is the object of unjust criticism, a lawyer, as a participant in the administration of justice, is uniquely able to and should support the tribunal, both because its members cannot defend themselves and because in doing so the lawyer is contributing to greater public understanding of and therefore respect for the legal system.

And if seeking a change in legislation:Seeking Legislative or Administrative Changes

4.06 (2) A lawyer who seeks legislative or administrative changes shall disclose the interest being advanced, whether the lawyer's interest, the client's interest, or the public interest.

Commentary
 
The lawyer may advocate legislative or administrative changes on behalf of a client although not personally agreeing with them, but the lawyer who purports to act in the public interest should espouse only those changes that the lawyer conscientiously believes to be in the public interest.

http://www.lsuc.on.ca/regulation/a/profconduct/rule4/

 

[whiskey601]

He's not allowed to advocate for a cause as a "lawyer", because his status with the Law Society is "Not Practising Law- Employed".  He is a member of the bar however I don't think it is settled as a matter of consideration as to whether the rules cited below are applicable to a member not actively practising law but rather is engaged in legal academia. It seems to me that he or the media [or both] are using his legal credentials to add credibility to some form of an agenda with a fairly large anti-military bias.   


I would further add that in fact I did read this man's recent works and have viewed Mr. Staples follow on commentary. Arguably, there is now a sufficient avenue of legal recourse available to those members of the CF who have recently seen their reputations engaged by these two individuals through various allegations. What I find particularly enraging is the conveyance of the rather stupid and completely unfounded comparison of the present situation to what happened in Somalia years ago.     

[milnews.ca]

A bit more info, this time from the CF:

Investigation Into Allegations of Detainee Abuse in Afghanistan
CFNIS (HQ) / CFNIS (QG) 2007-02 - February 6, 2007
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2189

OTTAWA – The Canadian Forces National Investigation Service (CFNIS) is currently investigating allegations that detainees were physically abused by Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan, in the Spring of 2006.

The investigation began last week, within a day of the CF receiving a complaint through the Military Police Complaints Commission (MPCC). One of the allegations put forward is that some Afghan detainees were abused while in the custody of Canadian troops, pending their transfer to the appropriate authorities.

In accordance with its mandate, the NIS will look into this allegation to determine the circumstances surrounding the alleged incident.

As this matter is under investigation, no additional comment can be made on the specifics of this investigation.

The CFNIS is an independent military Police unit with a mandate to investigate serious and sensitive matters in relation to National Defence property, DND employees and CF personnel serving in Canada and abroad.

-  30 -

Board of Inquiry to examine detainee handling in Afghanistan
NR–07.003 - February 6, 2007
http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=2190

OTTAWA– General Rick Hillier, Chief of the Defence Staff, directed today that a Board of Inquiry (BOI) will be convened to investigate detainee handling by Canadian Forces members in Afghanistan and the circumstances regarding the transfer of three detainees from a Canadian field element to Military Police at Kandahar Airfield that took place April 6-8, 2006.

The BOI is separate from the ongoing military police investigation conducted by the Canadian Forces Investigation Service (CFNIS) into the same incident. As such, the BOI will be undertaken in a manner that ensures it does not interfere with the NIS investigation.

Lieutenant-General Michel Gauthier, Commander of Canadian Expeditionary Force Command, responsible for all Canadian Forces (CF) operations overseas will be the convening authority for the BOI. As such, CEFCOM is responsible for issuing written Terms of Reference (ToR) for the BOI. The ToR will identify the officer that will preside over the BOI, its members and advisors, the security classification or designation and the scope under which the BOI will be responsible for investigating and providing findings and recommendations.

A BOI is an administrative inquiry normally convened to examine and report on complex or significant events. It serves to determine what occurred, how and why it occurred, looks for problems and proposes solutions to reduce the likelihood of recurrence. An administrative inquiry such as a BOI and a CFNIS investigation are distinctly different. In the case of CFNIS investigations, Military Police trained investigators assess evidence to determine if a criminal offence has occurred, and if there is sufficient evidence to lay charges. 

At the completion of the BOI, a report will be submitted to Lieutenant-General Gauthier for review after which it will be forwarded to the Chief of the Defence Staff. The findings, results, and recommendations will then be made public, subject to the limitations on the release of information imposed by the Privacy Act and the Access to Information Act.

- 30 -

[George Wallace]

...... It seems to me that he or the media [or both] are using his legal credentials to add credibility to some form of an agenda with a fairly large anti-military bias.  

That is my read on situation from the info provided.

[2 Cdo]

Sounds spot on George. Another academic lefty with a personal agenda against the CF. 

[3rd Herd]

Sounds spot on George. Another academic lefty with a personal agenda against the CF. 

As I stated earlier there are rules for academics. These it seems he has just tossed to the wind. I wonder if this is because his peers would find his results wanting.

[MCG]

Purpose

A BOI is convened to inquire into any matter connected with the government, discipline, administration or functions of the CF or affecting any CF member. In short, it is a means of finding facts and obtaining recommendations in relation to any important matter.

When a member of the CF is injured or killed, a BOI is necessary to inform CF authorities, as a minimum, about the cause of the injury or death, whether the member was on duty at the time, whether a person is to blame for the injury or death, and whether the injury or death is attributable to military service.

Composition

A BOI is composed of 2 or more officers and may also include one or more non-commissioned members above the rank of sergeant. Normally, members of the BOI are military, but in exceptional circumstances, a civilian may be appointed. The BOI may be assisted by advisers.

The members of the BOI conduct the investigation and decide on findings and recommendations. The advisers assist the members by providing subject matter expertise and information that will assist the BOI in gathering and analyzing evidence.

Procedures

A BOI hears the oral evidence of witnesses, normally under oath, and receives documentation and other evidence necessary for a full investigation and consideration of the matter.

On completion of the inquiry, the BOI submits minutes of proceedings to the convening authority. These minutes include a narrative, a record of the testimony of witnesses, exhibits, a statement by the BOI, a summary of the evidence, findings and recommendations.

Witnesses

Under the National Defence Act, a witness who may be compelled under Canadian law to testify before a BOI is not excused from answering any question on the ground that the answer may tend to incriminate the witness. However, under that Act, the witness's response may not be used against him or her in another proceeding (including criminal trial or civil trial). This is because the BOI is an administrative investigation and is not intended to lead directly to disciplinary or criminal proceedings. This protection is consistent with section 13 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

http://www.vcds.forces.gc.ca/boi/back_e.asp

[MCG]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070206/afghan_probe_070206/20070206?hub=SEAfghanistan

O'Connor says military probing abuse allegations
Updated Tue. Feb. 6 2007 11:08 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor says an investigation is underway into allegations that prisoners were abused while in the custody of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan.

O'Connor said Tuesday that the information uncovered during those investigations will be made public.  But the defence minister stressed that the probes haven't concluded yet that the allegations are warranted.  If the complaints are indeed substantiated, corrective action will be taken, O'Connor pledged.

University of Ottawa law professor Amir Attaran lodged a complaint in a letter sent to the Military Police Complaints Commission last week.

Attaran alleges that at least one, and as many as three, Afghan detainees "taken captive by the Canadian Forces appears to have been beaten while detained and interrogated by them."   The accusations are based on documents that Attaran obtained under the Access to Information Act.

"I discovered that on a single day last year (in April), a single interrogator working for the Canadian military brought three men to Kandahar Airfield," Attaran told Canada AM on Tuesday.

"All three of them had a similar set of injuries to their face, to their head and the most seriously injured man had his eyes swollen, cuts on his eyebrows, a slash across his forehead and a cut on his cheek."

Attaran said it seems the men never received proper medical attention before being handed off to the Afghans, never to be seen again.  He criticized the Canadian military for not having a mechanism in place to monitor what happens to released detainees.  "(It's) shocking because the Afghan government has acknowledged that torture is quite common in their custody," said Attaran. "We are handing detainees to known torturers and we are not apparently bothered enough to investigate what happens to them."

Commission chairman Peter Tinsley has notified by letter Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Rick Hillier and Capt. Steve Moore, who heads the military police, about the allegations.

"The complaint suggests various failings by the military police members involved relative to safeguarding the well-being of the persons in custody, and, more particularly, in respect of their failure to investigate the causes of various injuries which may have been sustained while in (Canadian Forces) as opposed to military police custody,'' Tinsley wrote on Jan. 30, reports the Toronto Star.

The three Afghans were captured near Dukah by a small group of Canadian soldiers.  One of the detainees was seen observing the soldiers but escaped, only to be captured the next day. In a field report, the soldiers described him as "non-compliant."

Another is described as being "extremely belligerent" and "it took four personnel to subdue him."

In the most serious instance, it was said that only "appropriate force" was used and that the suspect was an alleged bomb maker.

A military log says the detainee's injuries included bruises and cuts to his face, arm, back and chest. Some of the injuries were reportedly inflicted while the detainee's hands were tied behind his back.

With files from The Canadian Press

Still sounds like these guys were hurt because they decided to start fist fights to avoid being detained.

[milnews.ca]

Some of the latest, with the first piece serving as a warning about communications people/spokespersons dealing with public enquiries.....

Detainee whistle blower's 'agenda' attacked
Naval officer tried to intimidate him, law professor says
Paul Koring, Globe & Mail, 8 Feb 07
Article Link - Permalink

The Ottawa law professor who sparked an investigation into the possible abuse of Afghan detainees by Canadian soldiers says he was contacted by a senior naval officer yesterday who tried to intimidate him and impugn his motives.  The officer, Commander Denise LaViolette, a communications specialist for the military legal-affairs department and for the Provost Marshal, the military's chief of police, confirmed that when she returned a telephone call from Amir Attaran, she called him "unprofessional," questioned whether he "had a personal agenda" and eventually hung up on him after an acrimonious conversation.  Cdr. LaViolette's querying of Prof. Attaran's motives came a day after Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor assured Canadians that the government takes the abuse charges seriously.  Prof. Attaran had called Navy Captain Steve Moore, the Provost Marshal, to seek information related to the case.  "It sounded like she wanted to manage the problem by trying to intimidate me," Prof. Attaran said, adding that he found it insulting. "She was impugning my motives and believing that it was inappropriate of me" to have raised the issue of detainee abuse, he said ....


Story of abuse a distraction from key issue
Thomas Walkom, Toronto Star, 8 Feb 07
Article Link

Before everyone goes nuts over the did-Canadians-abuse-Afghan-prisoners story, let's keep one thing in mind.  No one has claimed that Canadian Forces soldiers in Afghanistan roughed up prisoners in their charge. The three prisoners in question (wherever they are) haven't made that claim. Nor, unlike other cases involving disputes between Afghans and foreign troops, have their families or friends. Nor has a Canadian Forces whistle-blower at Kandahar or an investigative journalist or, indeed, anyone in Afghanistan.  Even the University of Ottawa human rights advocate who first raised this issue isn't saying that he necessarily believes the trio were beaten by Canadians. Law professor Amir Attaran is much more careful. All he said, in the complaint letter that finally brought this issue into the public domain this week, was that his reading of declassified military police logs "suggests" that the men were beaten.  Or, in other words, there is enough evidence to warrant an investigation.  Attaran, quite properly, asked the Military Police Complaints Commission, an independent civilian oversight body, to do just that. It, equally properly, agreed. The embarrassed military brass then ordered two additional investigations.  In short, there are now three inquiries looking into whatever may or may not have happened after the three men were picked up by Canadian soldiers last April near a place called Dukah ....


Far-off war injures politicians at home
Jim Travers, Toronto Star, 8 Feb 07
Article Link

 .... It's possible that the spin masters are accurately gauging public capacity for informed debate. Perhaps we are too distracted by daily life or too uninterested in the management of a shrinking planet to seriously consider why or how war emerges as the favoured option.  More certain is that limiting public discussion works better for politicians in the short- rather than the long-term.  While easily stirred by the beat of patriotic drums, opinion turns almost as quickly when things inevitably go wrong.  There is an alternative. Instead of selling war by disguising difficulties, demonizing the enemy and defining victory in absolute terms, governments can be honest about the limited effectiveness of force in modern conflicts, the political aspirations of insurgents and the inescapable 21st century reality that "winning" may be merely a positive adjustment to the status quo ....

[hank011]

So, what are we learning from this?

1.)We should not take prisoners but take afghan troops to take prisoners for us(if at all)?
2.)Bombs are not necessary for insurgents to attack canadian troops, they can do it from their canadian university?
3.)Amir Attaran is the pashtun word for "add me to the no fly list"?

Allah sure has blessed us with this guy, thanks immigration canada!

[Rider Pride]

This is bull:

"All three of them had a similar set of injuries to their face, to their head and the most seriously injured man had his eyes swollen, cuts on his eyebrows, a slash across his forehead and a cut on his cheek."

Attaran said it seems the men never received proper medical attention before being handed off to the Afghans, never to be seen again.

Medical treatment for above:
an ice pack for his swollen eye and bandages for his cuts....what more would he want? Surgery?