Topic: Afghanistan: Why we should be there (or not), how to conduct the mission (or not) & when to leave

[E.R. Campbell]

If, and it's a big IF, what Saunders says Matthew Willis says is accurate then, early in the last decade, during the Chrétien/Martin era, we - the (just some?) agents of the Government of Canada - actively sought a better role in world affairs and we - those agents of the government, again - did so based upon some hard lessons learned during our (1990s) missions in the Balkans; lessons about who, amongst our putative allies, can and cannot be trusted.

[milnews.ca]

If, and it's a big IF, what Saunders says Matthew Willis says is accurate then, early in the last decade, during the Chrétien/Martin era, we - the (just some?) agents of the Government of Canada - actively sought a better role in world affairs and we - those agents of the government, again - did so based upon some hard lessons learned during our (1990s) missions in the Balkans; lessons about who, amongst our putative allies, can and cannot be trusted.

Wonder if Willis even knows about the Saunders piece yet?

[milnews.ca]

Here we go again with the "are we in, or are we out?" message dance - highlights mine

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has opened the door to Canadian special forces staying in Afghanistan after the withdrawal of NATO forces in 2014.

There are reports that the Pentagon has asked the Conservative government to consider leaving a contingent behind in the war-ravaged nation to help train Afghan commandos and to keep up the fight against al-Qaida and Taliban militants.

Harper said there has been no specific request that Canada stay on past 2014, but suggested he may be willing to consider the idea.

"As we approach that date, we will examine all options and we will take the decision that is in the best interest of this country and in the best interest of our security objectives for the globe," Harper said under questioning in the House of Commons on Wednesday.

His refusal to rule out a further extension outraged New Democrats, who described it as a violation of the parliamentary motion that ended the country's combat mission in Kandahar a year ago.

Special forces have been operating in Afghanistan, alongside U.S. troops, since 2001. As with the regular army, their combat mission ended last summer.

A small contingent of the elite soldiers are among the 950 trainers Canada has provided to the continuing NATO training mission in Kabul and are also scheduled for withdrawal in the spring of 2014.

Opposition Leader Tom Mulcair says the public has been clear, they want the troops home and the NDP will fight any proposed extension.

Parliament has spoken and the country's role is finished, Mulcair said.

"Stephen Harper is playing with fire, once again. We should be gone from Afghanistan. It is over.

"It's not proper for a Canadian prime minister to be so subservient to American military dictates as Stephen Harper seems to be in this case, once again."

The prime minister said the NDP's reaction was "knee-jerk" and "ideological."

"It's not a remarkable statement that the NDP won't support the mission," said Harper. "The NDP couldn't even make up its mind to support World War Two." ....

The Canadian Press, 25 Apr 12

[milnews.ca]

More from the PM on the future of the Afghan mission from Hansard:

Mr. Speaker, I have been told that we have not had that specific request from the United States. Whether it comes or not, I will be very clear, Canada will make its own determination in this regard. We have our forces there now to help train the Afghan security forces because it is in the interests of our country that Afghanistan does not become once again a safe haven for terrorism and also in our interest that, in order to prevent that, the Afghans themselves assume greater responsibility for their own security. Our government will make any decisions it makes with the best interests of our own country and the world community in mind .... it is not a remarkable statement that the NDP will not support the mission. The NDP could not even make up its mind to support the World War II mission. Canada has been involved in Afghanistan with the support of most of the parties in the House for some years. Our plan at the current time is, obviously, for the mission that goes to 2014, but, as we approach that date, we will examine all options and we will take the decision that is in the best interests of this country and in the best interests of our security objectives for the globe, and not an ideological knee-jerk response like the NDP .... all of the military missions committed to under this government have come before the House: the mission in Libya, which the House approved; we did not begin the mission to Afghanistan but the extensions of that mission. Certainly, should there be any other significant military missions, we are committed to getting the consent of Parliament before we act. That has been our action and that is what we will do in the future.

[milnews.ca]

More from the PM on the future of the Afghan mission, from Hansard:

Mr. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP):  Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Prime Minister left the door wide open to extending Canada's military mission in Afghanistan beyond 2014. He spouted rhetoric and stated that the government had not received this specific request, despite the fact that reliable military sources have told the media that a request was in fact received from the United States.  Is the Prime Minister saying that the United States has not made any contact whatsoever with Canada regarding the possible extension of the mission in Afghanistan?

Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC):  Mr. Speaker, I said that I have had no such contact.  I also said that our priorities remain the same, namely, to ensure that Afghanistan is safe so that it does not become a threat to our security and to ensure that Afghans themselves assume greater responsibility for their own security.

Mr. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP):  Mr. Speaker, yesterday the Prime Minister stated, “all of the military missions committed to under this government have come before the House”. However, that is not the case, and he knows it.  The last extension in Afghanistan was authorized by the Prime Minister acting alone. In November 2010, he said to Jack Layton:  "The government has never submitted missions that do not involve combat to the House of Commons. This is a training and technical assistance mission and that is why we are acting on executive authority."  Is the Prime Minister going to act unilaterally once again to keep our troops in Afghanistan beyond 2014?

Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC):  Mr. Speaker, once again, as I said, the government has every intention of bringing military missions to the House of Commons. In this case, this is a training mission. It is important that we ensure that Afghanistan is safe and is not a threat to global security. It is important also that the Afghans are responsible for their own security. That is why we are there, to prepare them to assume the full responsibility for their own security. 

Mr. Thomas Mulcair (Leader of the Opposition, NDP):  Mr. Speaker, our troops have been in Afghanistan too long already. Canadians have told us that they do not want another extension. They do not want a Prime Minister who vacillates on whether there will be an extension. They want a Prime Minister who respects the role of Parliament, period.  Canadians want a clear answer from the Prime Minister. Will he keep our troops in Afghanistan past 2014, yes or no?

Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC):  Mr. Speaker, I have made myself very clear. Unlike the NDP, we are not going to ideologically have a position regardless of circumstances.  The leader of the NDP, in 1939, did not even want to support war against Hitler.

An hon. member: There was no NDP.

Right Hon. Stephen Harper: Okay, it was the CCF, same difference. Parties do change their names from time to time.  Our position is we will do what is in the best interests of Canada.

To clarify the "the CCF leader didn't support WW2" vs. the previous day's "The NDP could not even make up its mind to support the World War II mission", here's the rest of the story from the Socialist History Project

.... The CCF’s 1933 Regina Manifesto was very clear on war. It said:

    "We stand resolutely against all participation in imperialist wars…. Canada must refuse to be entangled in any more wars fought to make the world safe for capitalism."

In 1937, CCF leader J.S. Woodsworth proposed a resolution in Parliament which declared that Canada would remain neutral in any war.

But for most of the CCF leadership, those fine words didn’t last a day past the beginning of a real war. In September 1939, the CCF national council voted 13-9 to support the government’s declaration of war. In the House of Commons, only one CCF M.P., party leader J.S. Woodsworth, spoke and voted against the war ....

[jollyjacktar]

It's starting to be a requirement that "Should I stay or should I go" by The Clash will have to be the march past for this mission.

[Macey]

Always tease tease tease
You’re happy when I’m on my knees
One day is fine, next day is black
So if you want me off your back
Well come on and let me know
Should I stay or should I go?

[Jim Seggie]

At this rate I may even get a tour in.

[Macey]

I don't mind another tour.

He he he, see you there Jim.   


Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?
If I go there will be trouble
And if I stay it will be double
So come on and let me know.....

Should I stay or should I go?

[milnews.ca]

It's starting to be a requirement that "Should I stay or should I go" by The Clash will have to be the march past for this mission.

Good one!

At this rate I may even get a tour in.

With a majority government, never say never, right?

[PuckChaser]

At this rate I may even get a tour in.

LFWA has the last kick at the cat for Op Attention. At that point it'll be easier as a Snr NCO to get positions than a Cpl!

[Jim Seggie]

LFWA has the last kick at the cat for Op Attention. At that point it'll be easier as a Snr NCO to get positions than a Cpl!

As an MWO/CWO?

Doubt it.

[PuckChaser]

You'd be surprised how many of them are floating around here.

[Redeye]

You'd be surprised how many of them are floating around here.

No kidding. And how they're inventing ways to amuse/occupy themselves at the expense of troops in certain cases...

[jollyjacktar]

My MWO from 09 was back with the Valcartier Roto last year.  It's possible, Jim.

[jollyjacktar]

The Taliban’s revenge
A new generation of militants is rising in Afghanistan, turning its sights on former allies
by Adnan R. Khan on Tuesday, May 8, 2012 9:38am

There is nothing suggesting violence in the Taliban fighter quietly sipping tea in a corner of the room. In any case, the police headquarters for Afghanistan’s Sarobi district sit next to the safe house we’re in. He knows the building well. Not long ago, he was a member of the security forces, charged with protecting Afghans from the Taliban fighters he now calls his “brothers.”

Jawad speaks animatedly, between cautious sips from his teacup. “When the foreigners first came here, I thought, why not work with them?” says the 28-year-old, a native of Uzbin, northeast of Kabul, the Afghan capital. “I never felt animosity for foreigners,” he adds. That, however, was then.

Jawad joined the Afghan security services a decade ago, as a teenager newly returned from Pakistan’s dilapidated refugee camps, where he’d spent much of his life. It was an exciting time. Finally, his family would reclaim their land. There was the promise of a new future, of prosperity guaranteed by the money the outside world brought with it...

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/05/08/the-talibans-revenge/

I suppose it should not come as much of a surprise in the end.

[milnews.ca]

"The head of NATO says he wants Canadian soldiers to extend their stay in Afghanistan beyond 2014. While Ottawa has said 900 of our remaining troops will be coming home in a couple of years, Anders Fogh Rasmussen said training Afghanistan's army is going to take time, and he wants the Canadian Forces to stay longer. "I appreciate very much that Canada provides trainers for our training mission in Afghanistan and I hope Canada will be in a position to continue that contribution also after 2014," Rasmussen said Monday in an exclusive interview with Global National's Sean Mallen at NATO's headquarters in Brussels. "From that time on, the Afghans will have full responsibility, but they still need our assistance and this is the reason why we will continue a training mission," the NATO Secretary General added. "And I hope Canada will continue to support our training mission." It appears Prime Minister Stephen Harper is open to keeping Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan a little longer. "We will assess what is necessary to make sure that Afghanistan continues to progress toward being a state that is not a threat to global security, and that is able to take care of its own security," he said in Ottawa on Monday. "Those are our objectives and beyond that, we haven't made any final decisions." ...."

Global News, 14 May 12

[milnews.ca]

The Canadian Forces mission in Afghanistan to train the country's army will end in 2014 as planned despite entreaties from NATO to extend the deployment, Defence Minister Peter MacKay said Sunday.

At a meeting of NATO leaders in Chicago, MacKay said Canada has "been a major contributor" to the Afghan war "since the very beginning" and has done more than its fair share. Canada will continue to contribute to Afghanistan in ways other than military personnel, he said. It's believed that would include financial assistance and development aid.

"That doesn't necessarily mean troop contributions or trainers — that means giving the Afghans the resources that they need to continue to make progress and hold the fort," MacKay said.

A formal announcement on Canada's plans for Afghanistan is expected Monday from Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who is also in Chicago for the NATO meeting ....

CBC.ca, 21 May 12

[milnews.ca]

Prime Minister Stephen Harper today confirmed that Canada's military mission in Afghanistan will come to a firm and final end once the current training mission concludes on March 31, 2014. The Prime Minister made the announcement at the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) Summit in Chicago.

"For more than a decade, the brave men and women of our Canadian Armed Forces, the RCMP, and many dedicated public servants and civilians have made enormous sacrifices to assist the Afghan people," said the Prime Minister. "Canada will honour its commitment and complete its current training mission but our country will not have any military mission in Afghanistan after March 2014."

To ensure the future stability of a secure and democratic Afghanistan the Prime Minister announced that Canada will provide financial support to the Afghanistan National Security Forces (ANSF).   

“Canada plays an integral role in ensuring that Afghan National Security Forces are well-trained so they can assume full responsibility for their own national security,” said Prime Minister Harper.  “The support being announced today will help sustain these Forces by ensuring they are well equipped beyond 2014.”

Canada will contribute $110 million per year over three years (2015-2017) towards helping sustain the ANSF. Canada joins a broad international coalition of NATO and non-NATO partners in supporting the ANSF. Canada will insist on strict accountability measures for this fund.

The Prime Minister added that the Afghan Government must continue to demonstrate its commitment to meeting international human rights obligations, combating corruption, strengthening the rule of law, increasing tolerance of religious freedoms, and protecting women’s rights as enshrined in the Afghan Constitution.

Canada’s ultimate goal is to sustain the gains that have been made as a result of the sacrifices of Canadian troops and help Afghans rebuild Afghanistan into a viable country that is better governed, more stable and secure, and never again a safe haven for terrorists.

PM Info-machine, 21 May 12

[milnews.ca]

.... on the mission - highlights mine:

“Good afternoon everybody.

“I’d like to thank President Obama for hosting two very productive summits this week.

“This has been an important year for NATO.

“Our Alliance acted quickly, effectively and in coordination with outside partners to help the Libyan people to bring down a tyrannical regime.

“And of course, we’re all proud that this was accomplished under Canadian leadership, the leadership of General Bouchard.

“Today we came together with a broad range of partners to discuss Afghanistan’s future.

“Canada’s objectives in Afghanistan have been clear.

“We want to ensure that Afghanistan does not again become a centre of global terrorism, and we want to see the Afghans take primary responsibility for their own security.

“For these reasons, I committed to our allies at our last meeting in Lisbon that Canada would contribute substantially to the NATO mission to help train Afghan forces until March 2014.

“Today I’m confirming that we will honour that commitment and that the end date is firm and final.

“Canada will not have a military mission in Afghanistan after March 2014.

“Since 2002, the brave men and women of our Canadian Armed Forces, the RCMP, and many dedicated public servants and civilians have made enormous sacrifices to help the Afghan people.

“We will continue to assist the Afghan people going forward.

“Specifically, to ensure the transition of security to the Afghans themselves continues, we will make a significant financial contribution to the NATO Fund for Afghan National Security Forces.

“Canada will insist that there be strict accountability measures in place for this fund.

“This will help ensure lasting results for the hard-won progress that Canadians had made in Afghanistan.

“It will also be necessary, of course, for the Afghan government to take greater responsibility for matters beyond security including redoubling efforts to improve governance, respect human rights and fight corruption.

“Finally, I also want to note that I had useful discussions on these issues and other bilateral matters with our allies over the past few days, including with President Hollande, President Obama, Prime Minister Cameron, Prime Minister Rutte and Chancellor Merkel.”

PMO Info-machine, 21 May 12