Author Topic: National" Borders- Trouble at The Cornwall Crossing (Read 20473 times)

E.R. Campbell · « **on:** May 31, 2009, 08:16:48 »

This is another new thread, again because I did not find one that was a close fit; but, as always, Mods may wish to merge it with something else.

As a policy matter my “answer” to this threat (reproduced here under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Ottawa Citizen) is: “Good for you! Government of Canada: close the border with the Akwesasne Mohawks.”

Quote

Arm guards and we'll shut border: Mohawk Warriors

Group vows to keep guards gunless at Akwesasne

BY DAVID GONCZOL, THE OTTAWA CITIZEN

MAY 30, 2009

AKWESASNE, ONT. — Mohawk Warriors from the Akwesasne Mohawk reserve near Cornwall say they will storm a Canada Border Services Agency post on Monday and shut down the international border crossing, unless their political leaders receive a commitment from the government not to arm border guards at the post, which stands on reserve territory.

The CBSA started arming guards in 2007, and officers at the Akwesasne reserve, which straddles the Ontario-Quebec-New York state boundary, are scheduled to begin carrying 9 mm guns on Monday.

The Mohawks say they don’t want armed guards at the post because it would violate their sovereignty and increase the likelihood of violent confrontations.

“We are going to clear them (border guards) out,” said Thomas Stacy, a middle-aged former professional wrestler who stood across from the border post with a small group of young men carrying large Mohawk Warrior flags.

They kept a low profile Saturday during a peaceful rally organized by the Akwesasne Mohawk Council. About 100 people gathered at the post to demand that the CBSA not arm the guards and that their demand be sent to officials in Ottawa.

“Tomorrow night at 12 o’clock (midnight) we have to have an answer,” Stacy said.

“If that answer don’t come, that’s it. Monday is going to be the worst. That’s the crackdown. It’s going to be over. It’s going to be done. No more signing papers, no more negotiations — nothing.”

Stacy said the reserve’s political leaders have been in fruitless discussions with the CBSA and federal officials.

“We are not getting anywhere with the government. The government is going to come over here and take over everything,” he said.

The Mohawk Warriors are a long-standing group that is separate from hereditary chiefs or more modern elected chiefs and councils. Stacy said they have made it clear to the council and to the Akwesasne police that if the government does not back away from its plan, then the Warriors will act.

“What we are waiting for is an answer from Ottawa. We don’t get that answer … action has got to be taken by the people,” he said.

Brendan White, a spokesman for the First Nation, said the elected leadership is working toward a negotiated settlement and will “continue to make itself available to have that dialogue with the federal government.”

“We remain hopeful that the federal officials will see the need to address our concerns,” White said. “I guess we are in a wait-and-see mode right now. The community is frustrated.”

After Monday, he said, it was “in the hands of the community.”

Howard Thompson, chief of the Mohawk Nation Council of Chiefs, representing all Mohawks in Canada, said he was worried about “someone instigating something that would get out of hand.”

“We don’t want to have to come and pick up the pieces later,” he said. “We would rather do it peacefully and negotiate something, rather than doing some kind of physical demonstration.”

“June 1st isn’t the end; it’s the beginning for us to continue to working toward not having armed customs officers here.”

Thompson said he had a three-minute meeting in a corridor on Parliament Hill on Monday with Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan, hoping the minister would reverse the initiative.

He said the minister made it clear to him that it was an “operational decision” and that Stephen Rigby, the president of the CBSA, has the authority to stop the arming of the guards.

Thompson also met Rigby on Thursday but said it is clear the arming of the guards will proceed as planned.

Chief Larry King also met Thursday with Rigby, who rejected compromises offered by the council of chiefs. The chiefs asked that the policy be delayed for a year or until the end of the CBSA’s arming process in 2016.

“Our priority remains the safety and security of our officers and the public,” said CBSA’s Rick Comerford, in a written statement Saturday.

“As we do every day, we continuously monitor our operation to maintain our commitment to safety and security and to ensure the flow of traffic. Our managers will take appropriate action when necessary — such as additional staff.”

The Akwesasne Mohawks have held a number of rallies opposing the arming throughout the month of May. There is a large tent and a campfire set up by the protesters that will be constantly occupied until at least Monday.

The council has been told that 18 border guards from the Awkesasne post are receiving weapons training and some of them will be ready to carry them.

The Akwesasne leadership has long warned against the move to guns in letters to federal politicians.

“We seriously consider your government’s actions in arming the (CBSA) guards as a direct assault on our sovereignty, which resonates into an act of war against our people,” wrote Grand Chief Tim Thompson in a 2008 letter to Stockwell Day, public safety minister at the time and now minister for international trade.

With files from Canwest news service

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

We have a very broad but not at all deep understanding that aboriginal people have certain special “rights” in our society – some granted by treaty, others “read into” our Constitution to recognize the “special status” of aboriginals versus the “settlers.” It is probably time to test the extent to which aboriginals are a “sovereign” people.

We have, de facto, three borders now: one between “Canada” and the Akwesasne Mohawks; another one between the Akwesasne Mohawks and the Mohawks of St. Regis (in the USA); and a third between St. Regis and the USA, proper.

The presence of aboriginal “nations” that straddle international boundaries poses a special problem that will have to be settled, eventually, in courts in both Canada and the USA. It is probably a good enough time to provoke the issue.

The “worst” that can happen is that the Akwesasne Mohawks (try to) join the USA.

Bruce Monkhouse · « **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2009, 08:29:33 »

The Mohawks say they don’t want armed guards at the post because it would violate their sovereignty and increase the likelihood of violent confrontations.

Nice bit of inflammatory journalism, I'm just curious if I gather a hundred Guelphites together for a march, would they call us "The Whites"?

How about some truth in reporting like, "The hundred or so ex-convicts who run the criminal activity......"?

SeaKingTacco · « **Reply #2 on:** May 31, 2009, 09:27:46 »

The Mohawks don't want armed border guards on the reserve? Not a problem. Just move the Customs and immigration posts to the edge of the reserve. Inspect and search everything that comes off of the reserve...

recceguy · « **Reply #3 on:** May 31, 2009, 11:01:31 »

They don't want CBSA armed because it will start to even the odds. They want to be the only armed presence in the area. Heaven forbid that our guards would have the means to defend themselves if confronted with an armed Mohawk while he's smuggling his drugs, cigarettes or guns into Canada.

I agree with Edward. Time to put this to a full test and end this crap, once and for all, either way. I also agree with SKT, set up a secondary inspection and thoroughly search everything that comes through it.

Jammer · « **Reply #4 on:** May 31, 2009, 12:00:11 »

Agreed.
Cut off all the tax free bennies and subsidized housing.
It's an INTERNATIONAL border and I don't suspect that they are too happy about the new CBSA and DHS agreement to share resources and equipment.

E.R. Campbell · « **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2009, 12:47:47 »

Let’s all be a bit careful.

Some of the “benefits” aboriginals enjoy are theirs by treaty right; the same sort of “right” we have to recognized borders with the USA.

Some other benefits are what I would call punitive. They were “awarded” by judges who decided, with very good reason, that we – mainstream Canada – brought “dishonour” to the crown (that’s the expression they use) because we lied and cheated in our dealing with aboriginals, even as we fully understood that’s what we were doing.

I agree that there need to be tight, tough “border controls” between Akwesasne and “Canada.” I do not think we should dispute the “right” of aboriginals to have duty free cigarettes on their “sovereign” land; nor should we dispute their “right” to sell those cigarettes – on which taxes and duties have not been paid - on their own land. What we should not tolerate is anyone possessing, for any reason, those cigarettes, the ones on which the taxes and duties have not been paid, anywhere on “Canadian” territory. Thus, we need a new “border” at which every person, every vehicle and every boat attempting to enter Canada is stopped and searched and where all untaxed items are either confiscated or properly taxed.

There’s nothing terribly wrong with Mohawks administering Mohawk law on Mohawk land; there is, equally, nothing at all wrong with Canada administering Canadian law on Canadian land; what’s sauce for the goose, and all that.

Aboriginals have some rights and privileges; Canadians have some, too. It’s time to clarify both rights and duties.

X-mo-1979 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2009, 13:25:46 »

Wow .
This sets the stage for many other minority groups,if they get their way.Canada has taken was too passive of a response to things of this nature.

I wonder what would happen if a few drug runners in Cape Breton didn't want the RCMP on the island?

Time for the Newfoundland Republic,western alliance to stand up.Split up the country like then old USSR.If we are going to grant rights and privileges to minority in one place lets do so across the country.

Jammer · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2009, 13:54:31 »

i can't wait for Danny Williams to get hold of that one...

An option that could be considered would be to eliminate that particular border crossing. i'll bet there'll be a pretty quick resolution if that option was tabled to the Mohawks.

milnews.ca · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2009, 14:07:57 »

For orientation purposes, a map:
http://quikmaps.com/show/105226

SeaKingTacco · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2009, 15:55:09 »

Quote

I agree that there need to be tight, tough “border controls” between Akwesasne and “Canada.” I do not think we should dispute the “right” of aboriginals to have duty free cigarettes on their “sovereign” land; nor should we dispute their “right” to sell those cigarettes – on which taxes and duties have not been paid - on their own land. What we should not tolerate is anyone possessing, for any reason, those cigarettes, the ones on which the taxes and duties have not been paid, anywhere on “Canadian” territory. Thus, we need a new “border” at which every person, every vehicle and every boat attempting to enter Canada is stopped and searched and where all untaxed items are either confiscated or properly taxed.

Edward,

I am with you. What happens on the reserve, happens. It is sovereign Mohawk territory, if that is what they want. However, a "free trade agreement" with Canada will take some negotiation...

Old Sweat · « **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2009, 16:31:01 »

The issue of tax evasion on articles purchased in sovereign Mohawk territory is moot. To my mind, the issue is not Joe Lunchbox buying a bag of 200 smokes, although collecting the taxes should be relatively simple. A major challenge is the smuggling of truck and van loads of illegal smokes into Canada for distribution via the black market away from the border. Many of these loads do not come through the border crossing, but are transported by power boat across the St Lawrence. If you recall, the situation circa 1993 was so serious that it was estimated up to a third of the cigarettes consumed in Canada were not taxed. (At that time the government put a huge crimp in that market by slashing the taxes on cigarettes.) There are other articles smuggled as well, both ways, and successive Canadian govenments have not mounted a rigorous enforcement campaign to avoid a confrontation over the issue.

X-mo-1979 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 31, 2009, 18:43:08 »

Quote from: Old Sweat on May 31, 2009, 16:31:01

The issue of tax evasion on articles purchased in sovereign Mohawk territory is moot. To my mind, the issue is not Joe Lunchbox buying a bag of 200 smokes, although collecting the taxes should be relatively simple. A major challenge is the smuggling of truck and van loads of illegal smokes into Canada for distribution via the black market away from the border. Many of these loads do not come through the border crossing, but are transported by power boat across the St Lawrence. If you recall, the situation circa 1993 was so serious that it was estimated up to a third of the cigarettes consumed in Canada were not taxed. (At that time the government put a huge crimp in that market by slashing the taxes on cigarettes.) There are other articles smuggled as well, both ways, and successive Canadian govenments have not mounted a rigorous enforcement campaign to avoid a confrontation over the issue.

However today putting cigarettes at 10 bucks a pack,it's forcing the Canadian public to quit (pro) or deal with people we normally wouldn't (i.e criminals).If they really want to mess with the reserve,make Marijuana legal and tax it,and make cigarettes purchased from the government cheap again.

E.R. Campbell · « **Reply #12 on:** May 31, 2009, 18:47:57 »

Quote from: Old Sweat on May 31, 2009, 16:31:01

... and successive Canadian govenments have not mounted a rigorous enforcement campaign to avoid a confrontation over the issue.

And therein lies our biggest problem: we refuse to face up to our responsibilities - beginning with our responsibility to elect grown-ups to Parliament.

When we refuse to respect the law we erode the most important pillars of our society. When our society collapses, with a gentle push from some barbarians, we will know where to look for those to blame: in the mirror.

zipperhead_cop · « **Reply #13 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:27:36 »

More BS and pandering to our domestic insurgents.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/090601/canada/canada_akwesasne_guards_border_guns001
Border guards leave eastern Ontario post

Mon Jun 1, 4:31 AM

OTTAWA (CBC) - Canadian border guards abandoned their posts early Monday at a U.S. border crossing at Cornwall, Ont., after talks broke down with Mohawk officials over the arming of border guards.

Canadian Border Services Agency workers left their posts on Cornwall Island, citing safety concerns.

Mohawk leaders from the Akwesasne Mohawk territory, which straddles the borders of Quebec, Ontario and New York, say they don't want the guards to be armed because it would violate their sovereignty (WTF?!?

) and increase the likelihood of violent confrontations.

Officers working at the crossing, which is in the middle of the Mohawk territory, were to start carrying 9-mm handguns on Monday.

Reports say roughly 400 Mohawks camped out near the building cheered when news of the departure became known.

On Saturday, about 200 Akwesasne Mohawks marched on the Canadian Border Offices in Cornwall Island shouting "No guns." The demonstration briefly held up border traffic but the bridges were not closed.

Public Safety Minister Peter Van Loan's office said the issue is out of its hands.

The Canadian Border Services Agency began arming its guards in 2007.

Perhaps the criminals that like taking pot shots at the Cornwall guys don't want to get shot back at. How horrible for them

X-mo-1979 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 01, 2009, 16:45:19 »

I would love to work CBSA.And have zero problems with armed conflict resolution.If these guys are walking off can I get one of their jobs?

zipperhead_cop · « **Reply #15 on:** June 01, 2009, 17:08:35 »

Quote from: X-mo-1979 on June 01, 2009, 16:45:19

I would love to work CBSA.And have zero problems with armed conflict resolution.If these guys are walking off can I get one of their jobs?

For someone who purports to want to work there, you are pretty insensitive to what they have to deal with. Nice "me for me" attitude you have there, Individual.
They "walk" in a work refusal due to unsafe working conditions. Typically they get information that there is an armed/dangerous vehicle coming through and since they are not capable of defending themselves, they walk. They aren't quitting their jobs.
Without armed guards, the policy for armed persons coming across is to let the vehicle go and notify local authorities. When the local authorities are the Mohawks, how much enforcement do you think is going to happen? Once the guards are armed and able to deal with them on a level playing field, you will see just how much drugs/weapons that our precious indigenous persons are infecting our country with. As it is now, it's just a free for all run by organized crime.

X-mo-1979 · « **Reply #16 on:** June 01, 2009, 19:24:15 »

Quote from: zipperhead_cop on June 01, 2009, 17:08:35

They "walk" in a work refusal due to unsafe working conditions. Typically they get information that there is an armed/dangerous vehicle coming through and since they are not capable of defending themselves, they walk. They aren't quitting their jobs.
Without armed guards, the policy for armed persons coming across is to let the vehicle go and notify local authorities. When the local authorities are the Mohawks, how much enforcement do you think is going to happen? Once the guards are armed and able to deal with them on a level playing field, you will see just how much drugs/weapons that our precious indigenous persons are infecting our country with. As it is now, it's just a free for all run by organized crime.

I won't get into the personal attack.You know me how much?Thought so.

Guess it's time for the government to allow CBSA to do what they need at the border instead of hiding to call in the police,who may end up missing them anyway.

Bruce Monkhouse · « **Reply #17 on:** June 01, 2009, 22:01:32 »

He doesn't need to know you to know that what you proposed would make you what we call a "scab".

It doesn't get much lower than that......

Michael O'Leary · « **Reply #18 on:** June 01, 2009, 22:18:38 »

Quote from: X-mo-1979 on May 31, 2009, 18:43:08

However today putting cigarettes at 10 bucks a pack,it's forcing the Canadian public to quit (pro) or deal with people we normally wouldn't (i.e criminals).If they really want to mess with the reserve,make Marijuana legal and tax it,and make cigarettes purchased from the government cheap again.

Forcing?

How about choosing to deal with criminals?

And suggesting the transfer of the taxation and legal problems to something you wouldn't use so you can have cheaper cigarettes is not exactly a "solution".

Piper · « **Reply #19 on:** June 01, 2009, 22:57:44 »

Quote from: Bruce Monkhouse on June 01, 2009, 22:01:32

He doesn't need to know you to know that what you proposed would make you what we call a "scab".

It doesn't get much lower than that......

You mean someone who wants to earn their wages? CF members don't have the option to walk off the job when the going gets rough, neither should they (armed or unarmed, they chose the job). I hate the term scab, I could give the names I have for 'strikers'...but they aren't good for polite company. There's lots of talk among union employees about what they're entitled to...but often little about what their responsibilities are. Striking is the organised and legitimized form of a child's temper tantrum. I kind of expected better from you Bruce...

But to the topic at hand, it raises some interesting questions as to the extent of sovereignty we are willing to afford to the Natives and what they are willing to accept responsibility-wise. If they want the type of sovereignty, immunity from 'our' laws and such then they should also accept the responsibilities that go along with said freedom. But the 'all and everything we want' attitude really annoys me. I don't care what happened 100+ years ago...that was then, this is now.

Native reserves are interesting places and one doesn't need to see a sign to know they're in one, and the lawlessness is but one sign (regrettebly, it is the norm more so then the exception on reserves). I don't feel safe driving through them, I don't stop until I'm out and I refuse to have anything to do with anything associated with them.

recceguy · « **Reply #20 on:** June 01, 2009, 23:31:36 »

Everyone's a tough guy on the internet

No one quit. No one ran away. No one is hiding. Let's not talk about 'they chose the job' unless you know the exact terms of reference for said particular job. Like ZC said, they took the mandated action when confronted with unsafe working conditions.

No different than working with chemicals. If you don't have the proper PPE, you clear the area until it's safe to return. It has nothing to do with intestinal fortitude and everything to do with common sense and the Canada Labour Code.

And I chose to quit smoking rather than pay the taxes or criminals. No one forced me. No one can force you to do anything, you always have a choice.

WR · « **Reply #21 on:** June 02, 2009, 03:03:05 »

Quote

You mean someone who wants to earn their wages? CF members don't have the option to walk off the job when the going gets rough, neither should they (armed or unarmed, they chose the job). I hate the term scab, I could give the names I have for 'strikers'...but they aren't good for polite company. There's lots of talk among union employees about what they're entitled to...but often little about what their responsibilities are. Striking is the organised and legitimized form of a child's temper tantrum. I kind of expected better from you Bruce...

Actually Piper exactly what I/we expected from you....

The CBSA officer's were ordered off by management at 23:45 hrs, because the "peace loving" Mohawks said they would raid the port and force an armed confrontation. So the managers did the nest thing they could do and what is expected of them.

Carcharodon Carcharias · « **Reply #22 on:** June 02, 2009, 05:59:09 »

Holy crap!

For those that don't know me, I was born in Saskatoon and lived in Canada for the first 35 years of my life. So, I'll say my 2 cents worth on this subject, seeing things from outside the border.

I think its absolutly pathetic how a group of thugs can dictate through direct intimidation to a soverign nation (Canada), how to run it's international borders.

What a joke! They've won!

Abandon posts? The last time I observed this, I was in Baghdad, it was 2007, as New Iraqi Army were leaving their posts because it was dark and cold, letting insurgents run rampant unopposed to lay IEDs and prepare ambushes.

What message/example is Canada sending internationally?

Time to wake up Canada!

Shakes head in disbelief,

OWDU

E.R. Campbell · « **Reply #23 on:** June 02, 2009, 08:55:31 »

Minister Van Loan's position (CBSA people in the Cornwall area will be armed) is good and it can be sustained through one simple act: move the border post off Cornwall Island to Cornwall, proper. It would be a tight squeeze to get it next to what looks like a water/sewage treatment plant - but not impossible, I hope. It might be done in weeks, maybe months.

The end effect will be about the same for most Canadians; people living on Cornwall island will be inconvenienced every time they need to come to the mainland to visit the doctor, play hockey, go to a movie, buy groceries etc, etc, etc ad infinitum. The people on Cornwall island might - probably will - want to set up their own border post. That will inconvenience all people travelling between Canada and the USA. If the inconvenience is minor then here will be no great reduction in traffic. If the inconvenience and/or cost is anything above minor then traffic will diminish until an acceptable equilibrium is established.

(The people on Cornwall island may want to set up a duty free shop. No problem because, with the aid of good, tower mounted, high resolution cameras, CBSA can see every person coming out of the store and every car coming out of the duty free shop's lot and can stop those people and collect Canadian taxes and duties.)

I regard this as a win/win. The Akwesasne Mohawks achieve greater sovereignty; Canada defuses a potentially inflammatory situation; the border crossing remains open.

zipperhead_cop · « **Reply #24 on:** June 02, 2009, 09:35:35 »

But what you propose effectively slides Canadas national border back a notch and allows a rogue state to be created. I won't get into a pedantic slippery slope argument since I don't think this will ever happen.
And I have not heard a good reason for placating them. Why do ANYTHING to avoid a confrontation with armed insurgents? Take the fight to them. These *** hats are no better than Kim Jong Il threatening the world.
Did they get jerked over years ago? Certainly. Does that mean they are entitled to a free ticket to be useless skin bags and criminals as they so choose? Hell no.
I have met a great many natives who are hard working, decent people who just want to raise a family and have a decent life. Without exception, they have all indicated that the reservation system and all the flaws that come with it do nothing to help natives (although they are pretty okay with the no-tax thing

I would be too!)
This countries policy towards natives is a pathetic joke. And in the best case scenario, it just enables thousands of people to not be accountable for their actions and sets the stage for countless generations of noncontributing burdens and misery for the kids they produce.

News:

Author Topic: National" Borders- Trouble at The Cornwall Crossing (Read 20473 times)