Author Topic: Tamil migrant ship headed for BC (Arrived 13 Aug 2010)  (Read 10549 times)

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Offline Antoine

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2010, 03:21:11 »
Quote
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2010, 12:49:27 »
.......If the federal government allows everyone aboard the MV Sun Sea into Canada, he added, the Tamils may sail more ships loaded with purported refugees towards British Columbia in the months ahead......

.......But there were concerns some had links to the Tamil Tigers. The 76 Sri Lankan migrants from that ship have since been released and their refugee claims will be processed over the next two years......

Their claims should be processed in their own country, but hey, why not coming here in first hand and then let the host country deciding if your are a valid refugee, sounds like a good plan. Thus, how many more boats from where before we wake up?

My comment is a bit harsh and I understand that those people come from a difficult and unfair situation but if we have all our personal reason to break and bend the Law, why having laws, where does it stop ? Double standards ?
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Offline George Wallace

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2010, 12:43:28 »
WTF ?

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.



Kevin Libin: Will Canada play host to a Tamil government-in-exile?


Kevin Libin  August 14, 2010 – 10:00 am
National Post

LINK


A young Calgary man believes he has family aboard the MV Sun Sea. He also believes strongly in the cause of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), a.k.a. the Tamil Tigers. He is, in a person, the predicament Canada faces if the Tigers, as some suspect, are employing human-smuggling ships as part of broader efforts to use this country as a base to rebuild their organization — the one behind a decades-long civil war in Sri Lanka. This country, say some LTTE-watchers, has all the moral support, infrastructure and political accommodation the Tigers need to make Canada their new headquarters.

“I don’t look at the Tigers as an organization that someone made, I look at the Tigers as my fellow people and citizens,” said the man, who asked not to be named, through an interpreter; he believes his father was one of the passengers on the ship that sailed, uninvited, into B.C. waters on Thursday, to deliver to Canadian shores 490 passengers, all suspected to be Tamils. “Everything [the Tamil Tigers] had done was to help us, to help Tamils.”What the Tigers have done is well documented by the 32 countries, including Canada, that have labelled the group a terrorist entity. In pursuing a Tamil homeland, they pioneered suicide bombings before the Palestinians, launching nearly 200 of them; they are believed to have been behind the assassinations of Sri Lanka’s president and former Indian prime minister Rajiv Gandhi, as well as any moderate Tamils who they considered disloyal to their cause. At the height of their power they operated a renegade air force, navy, police force, bank and radio and TV stations

In 2009, Sri Lankan forces decisively defeated the fierce rebel group. But the diehard movement has hardly disappeared, says Peter St. John, a professor specializing in intelligence and terrorism at the University of Manitoba. Beaten in Sri Lanka, their members rounded up by the government there, they may use Canada as their base; the MV Sun Sea, which Canadian officials suspect is ferrying at least some LTTE members, could be part of that strategy.


“The [Tigers] aren’t a huge threat at the moment, but they could well be in the future,” says Mr. St. John. “There’s always a small minority who won’t accept the verdict of history, and will be determined to keep fighting the fight from within a peaceful country like Canada.”

In addition to operating a reputedly sophisticated crime ring, including running weapons and drugs, sea piracy and human trafficking, the Tigers have since the beginning relied on the Tamil diaspora to raise the reported US$300 million a year — an estimated $12-million from Canada — that funded their fight with Colombo. Many, like the Calgary man, support the Tigers. But Public Safety Minister Vic Toews has pointed out that the group uses also “extortion and intimidation to raise funds within the Canadian Tamil community.”

Canada, with more Tamils — 200,000 — than any country outside Sri Lanka — is already a key seat of what is something of a rebel government in exile: In May, tens of thousands of Canadian Tamils cast ballots to elect the Transnational Government of Tamil Eelam, a 135-member parliament-style organization with more Canadian representatives, 25, than any other nation. The Sri Lankan high commissioner to Ottawa called the election a Tiger strategy “to keep the movement alive.”

“They’ve been talking about forming the Tamil government in exile here and setting up a number of institutions. Among the old support network for the Tamil Tigers here, they’ve resolved that the war isn’t over, or that it can always be resumed. As far as they’re concerned it’s war to the knife,” says John Thompson, executive director of the Mackenzie Institute, a Canadian security think tank. “Here in Canada, you’ve got all these young kids, their whole sole idea of Tamil identity has been defined by the Tigers. They’re being raised as a poisoned generation to perpetuate the conflict.”

A Canadian Border Services Agency report on 76 Sri Lankan men who arrived last fall on another ship notes that more than two dozen passengers were suspected Tiger members. “If the overseas wing’s intention is to regroup what is left of its Sri-Lanka based operation in Canada … these men clearly have the requisite abilities and experience to move that process along.”

Canada has long been considered fertile soil for Tamil radicals. With a large ethnic concentration around Toronto and Vancouver, and the reputed ability to mau mau even moderate Tamils into providing support, front groups have lured several federal politicians to their rallies and events: Paul Martin, when he was Liberal finance minister, along with Liberal MP Maria Minna, attended a pro-Tiger fundraiser in 2000. Even after Ottawa listed the Tigers as a terrorist group in 2006, Liberal MPs John McKay and Borys Wrzesnewskyj attended a Markham, Ont. vigil in 2007 to honour the LTTE’s assassinated political chief. Liberal MP Jim Karygiannis met with Tiger leaders on a visit to Sri Lanka after the 2004 tsunami, and Liberal MP Gurbax Malhi told a rally of Tiger supporters last year “I am helping you guys, I’m behind you because you’re fighting for the right cause.” He later claimed he “did not realize” the significance of the prominent LTTE flags and featured pro-Tiger speeches.

There is a history of foreign movements successfully building secure bases in Canada to prosecute violence in overseas homelands, says David Harris, former chief of strategic planning for CSIS, now director of the international and terrorist intelligence program at Insignis Strategic Research in Ottawa. There is, for example, frequently more radicalism among Canadian Sikh separatists—with attendant violence including everything from temple brawls to the assassination of journalists and the bombing of Air India Flight 182—than there is in India itself, Mr. Harris says.

The ability of extremists to keep warm here old squabbles from abroad “is another one of Canada’s gifts to the world,” he says. And the government, he believes, is not fully prepared for the kind of underground organizing a sophisticated operation like LTTE is capable of which, he suggests, could well include infiltrating political and judicial institutions.

Overseas, he says, politicians in affected countries affected have occasionally expressed anger at the inability of governments here to tamp out Canadian sponsorship of terror movements abroad. “To the extent that this develops here, from whatever origins, we have to ask ourselves at what point a reasonable foreign entity that’s being targeted by some of our citizens and their affiliates, is entitled, as a matter of self-defense, to regard Canada as some kind of adversary,” he says. “That’s a big issue and it could be a growing one. You cannot wash your hands of these things, if you have … what seem to be shadow armies, formed on our own soil, and launching hostilities against other powers.”

National Post

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2010, 18:01:12 »
DND's role.....
Quote
The Honourable Peter MacKay, Minister of National Defence, made the following statement regarding the boarding of the MV Sun Sea:

“Yesterday, the Canadian Forces assisted our Government of Canada security partners in apprehending the migrant vessel MV Sun Sea as it entered Canadian territorial waters.

The Navy frigate HMCS Winnipeg, carrying an RCMP Emergency Response Team and personnel from the Canadian Border Services Agency (CBSA), intercepted the MV Sun Sea enroute to harbour in British Columbia, allowing the RCMP to board and take control of the vessel, while CP-140 Aurora long range patrol aircraft out of Canadian Forces Base Comox monitored the situation overhead.  Navy personnel then piloted the vessel safely to port, under escort from HMCS Winnipeg, with the Kingston Class ship HMCS Whitehorse standing by to assist as needed, while CF medical personnel were on hand to provide medical assistance as required.

A primary role of the Canadian Forces is to protect our citizens and help exercise Canada’s sovereignty. It is clear from this successful operation that the Canadian Forces have the skilled personnel, training and equipment needed to assist our Government partners in defending our country and our continent from security threats.

This operation is part the Government of Canada’s clear message to those who would take advantage of Canadian generosity that human smuggling and illegal migration can not and will not be tolerated.

I commend the Canadian Forces for their swift and capable reaction to this incident.”
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Offline tomahawk6

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Canadian Navy Boards Tamil Freighter
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2010, 18:15:52 »
Ship is being escorted to CFB Esquimalt.

Quote
Tamil Ship boarded, Taken to CFB Esquimalt

The MV Sun Sea is suspected of carrying terrorists has arrived in Victoria, British Columbia.
A navy vessel had made visual contact at 2:30pm ET before it entered Canadian territorial waters at 5:30pm ET. HMCS Winnipeg had radio contact with the vessel. The Sun Sea captain stated he had refugees on board before being boarded by the crew of the Canadian frigate.
It is believed there are some 490 people onboard. Canadian officials believe that there may be terrorists and human smugglers are onboard.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...anka-rcmp.html 

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2010, 19:23:19 »
T6 - she actually was delivered about 0630 yesterday morning...my present work spot is actually spitting distance from the jetty they berthed at. 

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Offline tomahawk6

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2010, 08:02:12 »
T6 - she actually was delivered about 0630 yesterday morning...my present work spot is actually spitting distance from the jetty they berthed at. 

MM

Thanks for the correction. Will the Tamil's be allowed to stay or will they be sent back ?

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2010, 08:20:31 »
Thanks for the correction. Will the Tamil's be allowed to stay or will they be sent back ?


Now that they are landed the whole, cumbersome, ill-conceived refugee determination and admissibility process must be followed. They, almost all of them, anyway, will stay - some, probably most, will endure the whole, lengthy process, others will just, quietly, disappear into the Tamil diaspora.

There are many, many Tamils in Canada - some, maybe a lot, sympathize, at least, with the Tamil Tigers' aims; most, whatever their "old country' political beliefs are productive Canadians who integrate with, seemingly, less difficulty than is experienced by, say, Arabs, Africans and even Latin Americans.
 
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Offline Loachman

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2010, 09:12:27 »
There were a lot of Tamil kids at a Toronto high school at which my wife taught in the mid-nineties. They were the most polite and hard-working students, as a group, that she'd ever had. They were a much more cohesive group than any other at the school as well, and frequently had evening ceremonies at the school to mark religious occasions and other such events. We went to most, if not all, of these events, as they had stage performances and, most appreciated by me, interesting food. I remain quite prejudiced in favour of Tamils. From what I saw, they have made a better than average contribution to this country.

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2010, 10:12:23 »
A post at Unambiguously Ambidextrous:

Tamils and MV Sun Sea: Mickey I. gets it right
http://unambig.com/tamils-and-mv-sun-sea-mickey-i-gets-it-right/

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2010, 10:28:36 »
The fact that Tamils, for example, make excellent immigrants does not, in any way, mean that our refugee system is anything but a load of codswallop. We need a government that will take immigration and, completely separately, refugee policies seriously and get us adequate numbers of suitable immigrants and, separately, deal with the sad, global problems of refugees.

One problem, refugees, we need to handle at and near the source - by helping to remove the root causes that drive innocent people to leave their homes and seek refuge elsewhere and to help provide support for them, near to their homes.

The second problem, immigration, is something akin to a military recruiting exercise: we need to go out and find the people we want and convince them to come here and join us, we must not just settle for accepting those who want to come here.

If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2010, 10:32:36 »
I have visited many Tamil homes on business. Most of the time in St. Jamestown. There are Tamil neighbourhoods in Malvern,  Kennedy Rd., Kipling, Jane. I think Tuxedo Court was the biggest.   

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2010, 11:21:57 »
Just a quick couple of points.

1- Once the ship is in Canadian waters, it is really tough to turn it back. Apparently the ship's 'Captain' (who IMHO should be arrested, charged, and inprisoned for many years for human smuggling) declared right off the bat there were people aboard who needed asylum/refuge. I'm not 100% up on my immigration law, but I know that if a person says that to a Canadian Official, we are obligated to allow them to make a claim. I guess you could argue that the refugee/asylum seeker themselves did not make that claim (as stated it was the ship's Captain over the radio), and justify turning the ship around on those grounds, but at the very least the spirit of IRPA would have been violated, if not the letter of it.

2- Refugees claims that are accepted, vetted, and approved are immediately given Permanent Resident Status, which is in accordance with the UN Convention on Refugees and IRPA. It is NOT a temporary refuge.

3- There are two ways to come to Canada as a refugee - the 'proper' way is to apply outside Canada from a country other than that from which you flee (refugee camp for instance). It takes years and only a very small few are accepted. Travel documents are issued and you're flown here to start your new life. The other is to come here under false pretenses (visitor with a visa, or by boat like these people) and claim asylum/refuge. In the second way, CBSA deems you inadmissible due to any number of regs (financial, non-genuine visitor, breaking the law while entering Canada, etc.) but this is put on hold while the refugee claim is assessed. If denied, the inadmissibility kicks in and the removal order enforced. Unfortunately, the wait time is 2 years plus for the hearing. The VAST majority of refugee claimants that choose the second method are denied and sent home (or at least ordered home).
« Last Edit: August 15, 2010, 11:25:06 by Brutus »

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2010, 11:40:18 »
1- Once the ship is in Canadian waters, it is really tough to turn it back.

We could have turned it back well before it got into the 12nm zone. The EEZ is not Canadian waters.
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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2010, 12:01:34 »
We could have turned it back well before it got into the 12nm zone. The EEZ is not Canadian waters.

I was wondering about that. I am sure there's someone here that has a lot of knowlege about International Waters (maybe you?). Under International Law, could we force that ship to change course? What could Canada have legally done to stop; them?

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #64 on: August 17, 2010, 14:44:22 »
Tamil case could lead to law change: Harper

Quote
Prime Minister Stephen Harper says the federal government "will not hesitate" to change its laws to give authorities greater powers to curb human smuggling in the wake of the arrival of a ship carrying hundreds of Tamil migrants in B.C. last week.

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday in Mississauga, Ont., the prime minister said Canada is a "land of refuge" but the "abnormal" arrival of a ship carrying migrants creates "significant security concerns" the government has a responsibility to handle.

Read more...

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #65 on: August 17, 2010, 15:01:36 »
Tamil case could lead to law change: Harper

Read more...

And that's a fine if, and it's a vital Big IF, the law applies to all refugee claimants because the mode of their arrival, including whatever lawbreaking might have contributed to it, is, relatively, unimportant. What is important is that we have a coherent, sensible (comprehensible), consistent refugee policy that, simultaneously, reminds us that we, as a civilized society, have a duty to help those who find themselves in legitimate need of refuge and does not make it easy for refugees to migrate to Canada - by legal or illegal means.

We should strengthen the laws regarding human smuggling so that ship's captains and crews will be unwilling to come here; that same law should make it a crime to shield human smugglers - as some "boat people" have done by refusing to identify them to the Canadian authorities. That particular crime must carry a penalty that is, pretty much, as bad as the 'punishments' threatened by the smugglers against those who would "rat them out."
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #66 on: August 17, 2010, 17:45:28 »
Or we could house ALL refugee claimants in a tent city at Resoulute Bay while their cases are processed. Once word gets out I think people will discover other nations with more forthcoming attitudes towards refugees....
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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #67 on: August 17, 2010, 17:58:10 »
Or we could house ALL refugee claimants in a tent city at Resoulute Bay while their cases are processed. Once word gets out I think people will discover other nations with more forthcoming attitudes towards refugees....

I don't know about you, but I think that housing them in inhospitable or miserable conditions for the sole purpose of discouraging others seems a little unethical to me. Of course we have to address the security concerns, which Ibelieve are adequatley addressed in housing them in detention centres while their identities and security checks are being completed.

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #68 on: August 17, 2010, 18:01:52 »
I don't know about you, but I think that housing them in inhospitable or miserable conditions for the sole purpose of discouraging others seems a little unethical to me. Of course we have to address the security concerns, which Ibelieve are adequatley addressed in housing them in detention centres while their identities and security checks are being completed.


I agree with you on both moral and, as I understand them, legal grounds. Changing the laws, massively, is an option; that option might even include concentration camps; punitive 'housing' is not an option - at least not one that the Supremes would (or could) accept.
 
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Offline Brutus

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #69 on: August 17, 2010, 18:04:34 »

I agree with you on both moral and, as I understand them, legal grounds. Changing the laws, massively, is an option; that option might even include concentration camps; punitive 'housing' is not an option - at least not one that the Supremes would (or could) accept.
Changing the laws on where they are housed could happen, but the law changes that Harper has proposed today would be in direct conflict with the Supreme Court and the Charter. Good luck with that Stephen!

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #70 on: August 17, 2010, 18:13:37 »
Well, if they are able to come up with $40,000 for the trip, by whatever means, that classifies them as economic migrants.....on the same scale under which we shipped Guatemalans and Mexicans out of the country....
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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #71 on: August 17, 2010, 18:17:29 »
I don't know about you, but I think that housing them in inhospitable or miserable conditions for the sole purpose of discouraging others seems a little unethical to me. Of course we have to address the security concerns, which Ibelieve are adequatley addressed in housing them in detention centres while their identities and security checks are being completed.

Perhaps locating them in a province/city/town other than Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal may be a bit harsh, but it may also help to integrate them into Canadian culture a little quicker.  We have many towns in rural Canada that are seeing their populations dwindle; would one of them be considered inhospitable and miserable conditions in your mind? 

Canada has a serious problem with new immigrants and refugees settling in the major metropolitan areas and creating ghettos.  Perhaps we should discourage this, and encourage newcomers to settle in smaller towns and villages in rural Canada.
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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #72 on: August 17, 2010, 18:18:45 »
Well, if they are able to come up with $40,000 for the trip, by whatever means, that classifies them as economic migrants.....on the same scale under which we shipped Guatemalans and Mexicans out of the country....

They are applying under a different section of IRPA, so income is irrelevant.

If they are deemed to be legitimate refugees, they are of course accepted into Canada with open arms. If they are denied, they are removed under any number of inadmisibility classes (financial, non-genuine visitor, terrorism, security, etc.), and can never make another refugee claim again. Usually, they would never be allowed to enter Canada for any reason once they are denied refugee status.

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #73 on: August 17, 2010, 18:21:33 »
Perhaps locating them in a province/city/town other than Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal may be a bit harsh, but it may also help to integrate them into Canadian culture a little quicker.  We have many towns in rural Canada that are seeing their populations dwindle; would one of them be considered inhospitable and miserable conditions in your mind? 

Canada has a serious problem with new immigrants and refugees settling in the major metropolitan areas and creating ghettos.  Perhaps we should discourage this, and encourage newcomers to settle in smaller towns and villages in rural Canada.

I understand what you're saying and don't necessarily disagree with you, but they won't be integrating into any community while incarcerated. The location of the jail is irrelevant this problem. IIRC, new immigrants ARE encouraged to settle in rural and less settled areas, so I suspect the same policy would apply to a successful refugee claimant.

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Re: Canada on lookout for another Tamil migrant ship headed for BC
« Reply #74 on: August 19, 2010, 11:31:32 »

A use for Baffin Island
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By MINDELLE JACOBS, Edmonton Sun Last Updated: August 18, 2010

 Admit it. If you were a refugee or pretending to be one -- and had the chance to go asylum shopping, you'd probably pick Canada, too.

No big surprise that the boat carrying 490 Tamils from Sri Lanka made a beeline for Canada instead of docking anywhere else along the way.

Canada means free health care, social assistance and legal fees. It's a safe, tolerant, wealthy country that, as Ezra Levant noted in his column Tuesday, grants broad charter rights to anyone who sets foot on our soil.

Even if you're denied refugee status, the authorities have to find you before they can kick you out of the country. But if you don't bother showing up for your deportation hearing, that stalls the process.

Then the authorities issue a warrant for your arrest. They might find you. But if you put on a good disappearing act, you can probably stay here indefinitely.

After all how many Canada Border Services Agency officials are hunting down the tens of thousands of failed refugee claimants living under the radar?

Because of our generous social programs and reputation as a pushover, Canada is one of the most sought-after countries for refugees and economic migrants. As I pointed out in a piece earlier this year, even the U.S. is among Canada's top-10 source countries for refugee claimants.

We've got it pretty good and lots of people want a piece of the Canadian pie. I wasn't able to get a breakdown of how many refugee claimants arrive in Canada annually by boat, plane and through land crossings in time to make my deadline.

But in terms of asylum seekers abroad, Canada was the third-largest recipient of asylum claims behind the U.S. and France last year. More than 30,000 people abroad applied for asylum in Canada, according to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR). We accepted 12,500 for resettlement.

Every industrialized country is grappling with how to deal fairly and expeditiously with the hundreds of thousands of refugee claimants seeking a safe haven annually. The question is how to balance compassion with the very real concerns that too many refugees can overburden social services.

And the waves of would-be citizens will keep coming. There were 43 million people forcibly displaced worldwide in 2009, the highest number of people uprooted by conflict and persecution since the mid-1990s, notes the UNHCR. It adds that the number of refugees voluntarily returning to their home countries has fallen to its lowest level in two decades.

Personally, I would rather Canada pluck people out of refugee camps, where many have been living in terrible conditions for years, than take in people who are wealthy enough to pay suspected human smugglers $50,000 for a ticket to the good life.

But not all refugees are poverty- stricken, I suppose, and we have to respect the system that's in place. We can't blow up a foreign boat nearing our shores. And we can't turn boats away without giving refugee claimants a hearing. We do, after all, have to adhere to certain standards of decency and law. (Asylum seekers routinely arrive by plane and we don't shoot them, for heaven's sake.)

What we can do is speedily process refugee claimants and deport those who aren't real refugees. That's the intent of the new refugee reform legislation and if it requires more staff, let the feds go on a hiring spree.

As for the disappearing act, we don't have Christmas Island to process claimants like Australia does. But, hey, there's always Baffin Island.
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