Topic: DND halts millions in benefits

[dapaterson]

I wonder if any cuts will be made to MP's luxurious and generous benefits, while they sit comfortably at home watching our soldiers fight for them on CBC

This is an utterly unwarranted attack on MPs.

If you have followed the bouncing ball on this one, the VCDS was quite clear that DND/CF overstepped their authorities and never sought approval of some benefits.  In other words, MPs (or, more properly, the Treasury Board) was never asked to approve these things.  To complain about them not doing something they were never asked to do is absurd.

I have heard no MPs complain about benefits to CF members.  I have heard none call for benefits to be reduced.  I ahve seen the VCDS come out in public, acknowledge that bounds were overstepped, and explain that approval will now be sought.

The problem here is internal to DND/CF - folks leaned way forward and then forgot to do the necessary follow up.  Lots of good intentions, but not the best execution.

[Sigger]

There was never an attack on MP's.. My point is just that the CF works damn hard, and deserves these benefits. Approved or not.

[CDN Aviator]

Approved or not.

Yeah, we love it when money gets spent without proper authority to do so, right ?

Thats good government, right ?

 

[Sigger]

... 

[Brihard]

There was never an attack on MP's.. My point is just that the CF works damn hard, and deserves these benefits. Approved or not.

"deserves" (a matter of opinion) does not equate to "are lawfully in receipt of". We get the benefits that the federal government decides we are entitled to, through the TB. The money we get in benefits is all taken first from taxpayers or incurred as debt by the government. DND owes it to the public to ensure that money is spent only as approved.

[Sigger]

I am completely aware of all the corrections made towards my post, and agree with them. I made a comment out of frustration, and indignation.
Carry on.

[ballz]

Why can't CBC report our member's comments about how we are happy to potentially (most likely?) lose a bunch of benefits in the name of good government?

Unfortunately I fear that member's of the public think this is your every day CF member just screwing the system repeatidly for personal gain and they all got caught. I fear that because I was confronted by someone who thought that was the case.

[Strike]

Why can't CBC report our member's comments about how we are happy to potentially (most likely?) lose a bunch of benefits in the name of good government?

Unfortunately I fear that member's of the public think this is your every day CF member just screwing the system repeatidly for personal gain and they all got caught. I fear that because I was confronted by someone who thought that was the case.

Well then, that person has a hate-on for all things military.

The general public tends to be very pro-money to the military whenever it has an impact on a CF member directly.

[Jim Seggie]

I read several comments on a website WRT the civilian population. I think the vast majority are behind the CF. Only one person complained about families being flown to Trenton for the repat ceremonies. He was set upon by many others, so I left it alone.

[ballz]

Well then, that person has a hate-on for all things military.

The general public tends to be very pro-money to the military whenever it has an impact on a CF member directly.

I think he was more under a misconception... whether due to his own negligence to assume things from headlines, or whether he read it wrong, or whatever it was....

Because he doesn't have a hate-boner for the military, and when I corrected him on his misconception he conceded he must be misinformed.

That said, my fear was based on the fact that a lot of people don't exactly look into things before they start painting their own pictures... I did go to CBC to view some comments and I didn't see very many anti-military comments in there, so that's good, and I'm glad others aren't encountering what I did.

[ArmyRick]

Has anybody else deciphered the CANFORGENs and translated the details yet?

[dapaterson]

New CANFORGEN to replace 022/11 has been released:

CANFORGEN 032/11 CMP 015/11 071737Z FEB 11
COMPENSATION AND BENEFIT ADMINISTRATION
UNCLASSIFIED

REFS: A. CANFORGEN 019/05
B. CANFORGEN 145/05
C. CFIRP 2009
D. DOMESTIC BENEFIT AIDE MÉMOIRE
E. CANFORGEN 124/06

1.   PLEASE NOTE THAT CANFORGEN 022/11 IS CANCELLED UPON RECEIPT OF THIS MESSAGE. A REVIEW OF COMPENSATION AND BENEFIT ENTITLEMENTS HAS IDENTIFIED AREAS WHERE THE CANADIAN FORCES HAVE DEVIATED FROM THE TREASURY BOARD (TB) APPROVED COMPENSATION AND BENEFIT FRAMEWORK FOR CERTAIN CF PERSONNEL AND NEXT OF KIN (NOK). ACCORDINGLY, AS NEAR-TERM EXPENDITURE AUTHORITY CONFIRMATION IS SOUGHT, AND TO ENSURE THAT PAYMENTS ARE PROPERLY AUTHORIZED BY TB, THE PAYMENT OF SOME BENEFITS MUST BE SUSPENDED. INVESTIGATIVE ACTIONS HAVE BEEN INITIATED. THE PRIMARY CONCERN IS TO AVOID FINANCIAL HARDSHIP TO OUR MEMBERS AND THEIR FAMILIES. WE INTEND TO HAVE A RESOLUTION TO THIS SITUATION AS SOON AS POSSIBLE

2.   UNTIL THIS SITUATION IS CLARIFIED, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY PAYMENTS OF BENEFITS SHALL BE ADMINISTERED IAW EXISTING APPLICABLE TB APPROVED POLICIES AS INDICATED BELOW:

A.   SEPARATION EXPENSE: IAW COMPENSATION AND BENEFIT INSTRUCTIONS (CBI) 209.997, THIS BENEFIT IS ONLY APPLICABLE TO REGULAR FORCE AND RESERVE FORCE ON CLASS C SERVICE. THIS WILL AFFECT APPROXIMATELY 1500 REGULAR FORCE AND CLASS C RESERVISTS WHO WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CLAIM FOR FURNITURE RENTAL, CONNECTION FEES, LEASE LIABILITIES AND INTERIM LODGING AND MEALS (ON RETURN FROM ATTACHED POSTING OR EXTENDED TD). SE CLAIMS FOR ITEMS PERMISSIBLE UNDER THE CBI WILL STILL BE PROCESSED BUT MEMBERS SHOULD NOTE THAT THE RATES RECEIVED FOR BOTH COMMERCIAL AND NON COMMERCIAL ACCOMODATIONS COULD BE AFFECTED. IAW CBI 209.997, THE AUTHORITY FOR IR RESTS WITH THE LOCAL BASE/WING COMMANDER AND NOT THE CAREER MANAGERS. AS SUCH, REF A IS HEREBY RESCINDED. CLASS B RESERVISTS WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO CLAIM SEPARATION EXPENSE. AS SUCH, REF B, WHICH HAD PROVIDED CLASS B SEPARATION EXPENSE BENEFITS, IS HEREBY RESCINDED

B.   TRANSPORTATION ON LEAVE: IAW CBI 209.50 FOR DOMESTIC PURPOSES AND IAW MILITARY FOREIGN SERVICE INSTRUCTIONS (MFSI) FOR OPERATIONS OUTSIDE CANADA. FOR DOMESTIC LEAVE TRAVEL ASSISTANCE (LTA) CF MEMBERS ARE ONLY ENTITLED TO CLAIM EXPENSES TO RETURN TO THEIR HOME. THIS BENEFIT DOES NOT INCLUDE AN ENTITLEMENT FOR REVERSE OR THIRD-LOCATION LTA. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO MEMBERS ON OPERATIONAL DEPLOYMENT OVERSEAS WHO ARE COVERED UNDER THE MFSI

C.   REIMBURSEMENT FOR STORAGE OF PERSONAL MOTOR VEHICLE (PMV): IAW CBI 209.834, ALL PERS ON ATTACHED POSTING OUTSIDE CANADA WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO CLAIM THIS BENEFIT

D.   NEXT OF KIN (NOK) TRAVEL: IAW CBI 209.993, 209.9931 AND 210.225, THIS PROVIDES AUTHORITY FOR NOK OR FAMILY REPRESENTATIVES TO TRAVEL TO THE LOCATION WHERE AN ILL OR INJURED MEMBER IS BEING HOSPITALIZED AND TO AND FROM THE PLACE OF BURIAL. TRAVEL TO REPATRIATION CEREMONIES AND NOK THEATRE VISITS WILL BE FUNDED FROM NON PUBLIC FUNDS ON AN INTERIM BASIS AND WILL CONTINUE. THE USE OF THE CONTINGENCY FUND BY DCSM SHALL CEASE IMMEDIATELY

E.   COMPASSIONATE TRAVEL ASSISTANCE: IAW CBI 209.51, THIS BENEFIT ONLY APPLIES TO REGULAR FORCE MEMBERS AND TO RESERVE FORCE MEMBERS, WHO HAVE BEEN AUTHORIZED TO MOVE THEIR FURNITURE AND EFFECTS AT PUBLIC EXPENSE, AND

F.   POSTING ALLOWANCE ON RELEASE FROM OUTSIDE CANADA OR PROHIBITED POSTING (THAT IS, POSTING WHERE THE MOVEMENT OF DEPENDENTS AND/OR HOUSEHOLD GOODS IS PROHIBITED): IAW WITH CBI 205.42 VICE REF C. THIS BENEFIT BEING PAID IAW REF C IS TO CEASE IMMEDIATELY.

3.   THE FOLLOWING BENEFITS WHICH ARE CURRENTLY BEING ADMINISTERED IAW REF D ARE TO CEASE IMMEDIATELY:

A.   TD BENEFITS WHICH REIMBURSE TRAVEL, ACCOMMODATION AND MEAL EXPENSES FOR HONORARY APPOINTMENTS AND RANKS WHEN TRAVELLING ON CF BUSINESS,

B.   REIMBURSEMENT OF CUSTODIAL EXPENSE (COSTS TO MAINTAIN A VACANT RESIDENCE) FOR ALL PERS ATTACHED POSTED OUTSIDE CANADA AND ON PROHIBITED POSTING INSIDE AND OUTSIDE CANADA, AND

C.   TD BENEFITS FOR ALL PERS ON ATTACH POSTING (CF MEMBERS ARE NO LONGER CONSIDERED TO BE ON TRAVEL STATUS DURING THE DURATION OF THE ATTACH POSTING EXCEPT FOR TRAVEL TO AND FROM THEIR HOME UNIT). REF E IS HEREBY RESCINDED

4.   I HAVE GIVEN A GENERAL DESCRIPTION OF THE TYPES OF BENEFITS THAT NEED TO BE CLARIFIED AND OF WHO WILL BE AFFECTED. DETAILED DIRECTION FOR ALL CF ESTABLISHMENTS (ORDERLY ROOMS, CASHIERS, ETC.) ON HOW TO ADMINISTER THESE ISSUES WILL BE PROVIDED UNDER A SEPARATE AIG MESSAGE. MEMBERS WITH QUESTIONS CONCERNING ANY OF THESE BENEFITS SHOULD CONSULT WITH THEIR UNIT OR

5.   IT IS ACKNOWLDEGED THAT THIS SITUATION MAY RESULT IN AN ELEMENT OF FINANCIAL HARDSHIP TO CF MEMBERS. IN THE EVENT THAT THIS DIRECTION RESULTS IN UNDUE FINANCIAL STRESS, CF MEMBERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO SEEK FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE THRU THEIR RESPECTIVE BASES AND WINGS AND LOCAL SISIP FINANCIAL ADVISORS. NEVERTHELESS WE MUST PUT OUR HOUSE IN ORDER. THE INTENT IS TO SEEK CLEAR AUTHORITY FOR THESE BENEFITS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. IN DOING SO,I REMAIN COMMITTED TO ENSURING THAT CF PERSONNEL HAVE ACCESS TO BENEFITS AND ALLOWANCES THAT ARE REASONABLE, EQUITABLE AND ARE REFLECTIVE OF CONTEMPORARY BENEFIT STANDARDS. I WILL PROVIDE UPDATES ON THESE ISSUES AS THEY BECOME AVAILABLE

6.   SIGNED BY RADM A. SMITH, CMP

[Pat in Halifax]

Still a little foggy but some of the problems too are with the CBI website which hasn't been updated in almost 2 years!!
http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6
There is (for example) no 209.997 (SE) which affects an AWFUL lot of people.

[dapaterson]

Still a little foggy but some of the problems too are with the CBI website which hasn't been updated in almost 2 years!!
http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/home_e.asp?sidesection=6
There is (for example) no 209.997 (SE) which affects an AWFUL lot of people.

Click on 209 on the left hand side, then on Section 10 - Miscellaneous - and it's right there.

http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/cbi_chapter-209_e.asp?sidesection=6&section=10

[Sythen]

Just found out about this today when I went to submit a claim for my car storage fees while I was overseas... A nice surprise to be potentially out over $2500... Wouldn't have stored my car or I would've at the very least did a lot more shopping around if I had known about this before..

[dapaterson]

And another CANFORGEN with further information.


CANFORGEN 033/11 CMP 016/11 071914Z FEB 11
COMPENSATION AND BENEFIT ADMINISTRATION
UNCLASSIFIED
REFS: A. CANFORGEN 022/11
B. NDA SECT 35
C. DOMESTIC BENEFIT AIDE MEMOIRE
1.   PLEASE NOTE THAT CANFORGEN 024/11 IS CANCELLED UPON RECEIPT OF THIS MESSAGE. FURTHER TO THE CANFORGEN ISSUED AT REF A, THE FOLLOWING DIRECTION IS PROVIDED TO ALL CF ESTABLISHMENTS TO ASSIST IN ADMINISTERING THE FOLLOWING BENEFITS
2.   SEPARATION EXPENSE (SE) – IAW CBI 209.997
A.   CLASS B RESERVISTS - THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT TO SE FOR CLASS B RESERVES
B.   RATIONS AND QUARTERS

(1) IF RATIONS AND QUARTERS ARE AVAILABLE, AS DETERMINED BY THE BASE/WING COMMANDER, THEY SHALL BE UTILIZED. A MEMBER OCCUPYING QUARTERS IS ENTITLED TO RECEIVE RATIONS AND QUARTERS AT PUBLIC EXPENSE

(2) LOW RATE OF SE, AT A DAILY RATE OF 75 PERCENT OF THE INCIDENTAL EXPENSE ALLOWANCE AS PRESCRIBED BY THE NJC TRAVEL DIRECTIVE
C.   COMMERCIAL LODGING

(1) COMMERCIAL LODGING MEANS FURNISHED ACCOMMODATION SUCH AS HOTELS, MOTELS OR CORPORATE APARTMENTS/RESIDENCES THAT IS AVAILABLE AT WEEKLY OR MONTHLY RATES THAT PROVIDE SLEEPING, MEAL PREPARATION, AND REFRIGERATION FACILITIES

(2) ACCOMMODATION RATES WILL BE PROMULGATED UNDER SEPARATE COVER

(3) A MEMBER IS ENTITLED TO THE HIGH RATE OF SE, EQUAL TO 35 PERCENT OF THE DAILY COMPOSITE ALLOWANCE (CURRENTLY 29.82 DOLLARS DAILY), AND

(4) A MEMBER IS ENTITLED TO REIMBURSEMENT OF MONTHLY PARKING CHARGES THAT ARE INCURRED
D.   NON COMMERCIAL LODGING

(1) NON COMMERCIAL LODGING MEANS A FURNISHED OR UNFURNISHED PRIVATE APARTMENT THAT IS NOT OWNED BY THE MEMBER OR BY ANYONE THAT THE MEMBER IS RELATED TO BY BLOOD OR MARRIAGE

(2) ACCOMMODATION RATES WILL BE PROMULGATED UNDER SEPARATE COVER

(3) A MEMBER IS ENTITLED TO THE HIGH RATE OF SE, EQUAL TO 35 PERCENT OF THE DAILY COMPOSITE ALLOWANCE (CURRENTLY 29.82 DOLLARS DAILY), AND

(4) A MEMBER IS ENTITLED TO REIMBURSEMENT OF MONTHLY PARKING CHARGES THAT ARE INCURRED
E.   FURNITURE RENTAL - THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT FOR FURNITURE RENTAL
F.   SERVICE CONNECTIONS - THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT FOR BASIC PHONE, TV AND INTERNET
G.   LEASE LIABILITY - THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT FOR LEASE LIABILITY
H.   INTERIM LODGINGS AND MEALS AND MISCELLANEOUS (ILM AND M) - THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT TO ILM AND M ON RETURN FROM ATTACH POSTING OR EXTENDED TD, AND
I.   SERVICE COUPLE - THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT TO SE FOR A SERVICE COUPLE MARRIED OR COMMON LAW AFTER CHANGE OF STRENGTH DATE
3.   TRANSPORTATION ON LEAVE (LEAVE TRAVEL ASSISTANCE (LTA)) – IAW CBI 209.50
A.   MEMBERS WITH DEPENDANTS ARE ENTITLED TO LTA TO RETURN HOME TO THEIR NOK WHEN THEY ARE AWAY FROM THEIR PLACE OF DUTY FOR MORE THAN 60 DAYS FOR SERVICE REASONS
B.   THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT TO HAVE SERVED A MINIMUM OF 90 DAYS IN THE CF IN ORDER TO QUALIFY FOR LTA
C.   THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT TO THIRD LOCATION LTA
D.   THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT TO REVERSE LTA
E.   WHEN THE LOCATION OF THE LTA IS OUTSIDE CANADA, ONLY THE PORTION OF THE JOURNEY ACTUALLY MADE IN CANADA OR BETWEEN CANADIAN POINTS MAY BE REIMBURSED
4.   STORAGE OF PMV – IAW CBI 209.834
A.   THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT TO ANY EXPENSES RELATED TO THE STORAGE OF A PMV WHILE ATTACHED POSTED OUTSIDE CANADA, AND
B.   FOR A MEMBER PROHIBITED POSTED, THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT TO BE REIMBURSED EXPENSES THAT ARE REQUIRED TO RESTORE THE VEHICLE TO ROAD WORTHINESS
5.   POSTING ALLOWANCE - IAW CBI 205.42 THERE IS NO ENTITLEMENT TO POSTING ALLOWANCE WHEN POSTED FROM OUTCAN OR AN ISOLATED POST FOR RELEASE PURPOSES
6.   NOK TRAVEL - IAW CBI 209.993, 209.9931 AND CBI 210.225 THE ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA AND THE ENTITLEMENTS DETAILED IN THE CBI SHALL BE ADHERED TO
7.   COMPASSIONATE TRAVEL ASSISTANCE (CTA) – IAW CBI 209.51 MEMBERS OF THE RESERVE FORCE SERVING ON A PERIOD OF CLASS B OR C SERVICE MUST HAVE BEEN AUTHORIZED TO MOVE HG AND E IN RESPECT OF THAT PERIOD OF SERVICE IN ORDER TO BE ELEGIBLE FOR CTA
8.   THE FOLLOWING BENEFITS, WHICH ARE CURRENTLY BEING ADMINISTERED IAW REF C WITHOUT EXPENDITURE AUTHORITY SHALL CEASE IMMEDIATELY:
A.   TD BENEFITS, FOR HONORARY APPOINTMENTS AND RANKS
B.   CUSTODIAL EXPENSE, AND
C.   TD BENEFITS, FOR ALL THOSE ATTACH POSTED IN CANADA. MEMBERS ON ATTACHED POSTING ARE ONLY ENTITLED TO REIMBURSEMENT OF EXPENDITURES WHILE PROCEEDING TO AND FROM THE ATTACHED POSTING LOCATION
9.   AT THIS TIME, CF ESTABLISHMENTS ARE NOT TO RECOVER ANY ADVANCES ALREADY ISSUED. FURTHER ADMINISTRATIVE DIRECTION REGARDING THESE ADVANCES WILL BE PROVIDED ONCE AUTHORITIES HAVE BEEN OBTAINED
10.   ALL RELEVANT CBI CAN BE FOUND ON THE DCBA WEBSITE AT THE FOL LINK: http://HTTP://HR.OTTAWA-HULL.MIL.CA/DGCB/CBI/ENGRAPH/HOME UNDERLINE E.ASP SIGNED BY RADM A. SMITH

[Pat in Halifax]

Click on 209 on the left hand side, then on Section 10 - Miscellaneous - and it's right there.

http://hr.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/dgcb/cbi/engraph/cbi_chapter-209_e.asp?sidesection=6&section=10

I SWEAR that wasn't there yesterday!!!

[Zoomie]

They talk a fair bit about Separation Expense (SE) but not directly about being on Imposed Restriction (IR) - are they considered the same?  I have quite a few students posted on IR to the school who are getting stressed about this message.

[dapaterson]

IR is a status; SE is a benefit.  Not everyone on IR is entitled to SE.

Given the earlier comments of the VCDS, I expect much of this will be regularized, with DND getting retroactive approval.  From last Monday's Press Conference:

"I can say that we’re going forward to look for retroactive authority and authority going forward.  The members of the Canadian Forces aren’t going to see a difference in their pay cheques, but what they will see is that they won’t be able to process claims for specific things for which they would normally have been reimbursed until we’ve sorted this out."

[Pat in Halifax]

I am IR in Ottawa right now and my IR Clerk 'hinted' at exactly that: status quo (my case only mind you). I am here living in a furnished apartment, meeting 3 of the conditions of IR. She also said to keep that to myself but I hate hearing of anyone (especially students) getting stressed about stuff that, in retrospect, we, as supervisors should probably have picked up on. I have actually been reading back and forth between the outpouring of CANFORGENS and CBIs but alas lunch is over!!!

[Pat in Halifax]

Just found out about this today when I went to submit a claim for my car storage fees while I was overseas... A nice surprise to be potentially out over $2500... Wouldn't have stored my car or I would've at the very least did a lot more shopping around if I had known about this before..

I am not sure how they are saying there is no entitlement as CBI 209.834 – STORAGE OF PRIVATE MOTOR VEHICLE AND RELATED TRANSPORTATION AND TRAVELLING EXPENSES sort of covers those off those on deployment....Atleast the way I read it, but yet again, I am just a stoker!

[dapaterson]

CBI 209.834 reads (in part), emphasis added

An officer or non-commissioned member, when posted to or from a place of duty to which the shipment of a private motor vehicle is, or was, not authorized, is entitled to

Folks on deployment were attach posted, not posted.

I suspect we'll see some amendments to policies that will address this issue - it's just that in the short term folks will have to wait for reimbursement.

[Sythen]

I am not sure how they are saying there is no entitlement as CBI 209.834 – STORAGE OF PRIVATE MOTOR VEHICLE AND RELATED TRANSPORTATION AND TRAVELLING EXPENSES sort of covers those off those on deployment....Atleast the way I read it, but yet again, I am just a stoker!

I don't know anything about policies and how they affect reimbursement. All I know is I was told when we left that I would be reimbursed, but went up before lunch today and was told now they might not. She put in my claim anyways, in case it gets sorted out, but she said not to expect any money any time soon.

[Pat in Halifax]

This is just not right.....

[airmich]

I don't know anything about policies and how they affect reimbursement. All I know is I was told when we left that I would be reimbursed, but went up before lunch today and was told now they might not. She put in my claim anyways, in case it gets sorted out, but she said not to expect any money any time soon.

If this new policy effects the storage of vehicles for those on deployment, I would read the message that it is effective as of the published date of the Canforgen.  Therefore, IMO, you would receive reimbursement up to the date that the benefit ceased.  In fact, this would/should be applied to all items which benefits cease on.  But, as stated by many, the message is not very easy to interpret, and all we (and I'm sure the clerks are feeling the same way) can do is guess.