Topic: Queen's Diamond Jubilee Super Thread

[Infanteer]

Well, if I'm going to the bar, I'll have what he's having....

[recceguy]

I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.

[milnews.ca]

I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.

You've lost 2 years of service somewhere....
http://forums.army.ca/forums/index.php/topic,94678.msg1002934.html#msg1002934

[57Chevy]

dowadiddy,
                  Have you noticed a trend since your post ?
                                                               
                  diddly doo dah  lol
               

[N. McKay]

I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.

If this really is your understanding of our system of government, you can save yourself a lot of grief by doing some reading on how a constitutional monarchy really works.

[ModlrMike]

I'm now retired after 40 years of service. I was presented with the Queen's 50Th anniversary medal in 2002.  I sent it back to the Min of Def.  It's embarrassing that as a great  and proud independent nation we feel we need to honour a foreign monarch (yes, I know she is our Head of State, big deal, so what) by advertising a 60 year dictatorship.
While I'm at it.  I thought the Sacrifice Medal was long overdue but am saddened and embarrassed that the Sovereign is is profiled on the front of the medal.  I would have much preferred the observe (Vimy memorial) to face to the front.  Then again,  I guess we swore our oath to  the Queen and not to do our duty to our country so all my fine brothers and sisters who were killed or wounded in Afghanistan sacrificed their lives and bodies to the Queen.  Too bad neither she nor any members of her family had the decency to  attend any of the repatriation ceremonies.

Clearly you conflate the Queen with the Crown. The Queen is a person, the Crown is the people (but also much more). While the Queen is mortal, the Crown is not. In Canada, the people and their country are represented by the Crown, the office held by the Queen (for the simplest explanation).

[SeaKingTacco]

Wow. To think he spent the last 38 or 40 years, serving, yet gritting his teeth the whole time.  And he had it wrong all along.

[Crantor]

Wow. To think he spent the last 38 or 40 years, serving, yet gritting his teeth the whole time.  And he had it wrong all along.

And not only that he had no issues serving and swearing allegiance to what he considers a dictator....

[Strike]

And not only that he had no issues serving and swearing allegiance to what he considers a dictator....

...or collecting the paycheck.

[PMedMoe]

...or collecting the paycheck.

....and now the pension.

[medicineman]

I wonder if he's the "officer" that refused to stand or acknowledge the Loyal Toasts at the mess dinners at RMC...I put the quotes around officer because someone that would blatantly disregard their commissioning oath like that should actually be required to relinquish said commission.  But that's just the ex-WO in me talking I guess.

MM

[dowadiddy]

So after 40 years of service you truly believe that you swore an oath to the Queen as an individual?  LOL.  Wow.  You really don't understand what you swore an oath to do you?

The words of the oath are crystal clear (.....true allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, the Second, Queen of Canada.....) Maybe you are suggesting that the oath means duty, honour, integrity, courage. loyalty all to the CF and to the ideals of Canada.  Well, that is not what the WORDS, the written words, say.  I paraphrase the oath to mean unswerving loyalty to a named and well known famous person who lives in the UK and who has some vague connection to Canada.

Do I notice a trend in response to my post?  Yes, sadly I have.  I cannot understand why Canadians, closely associated with the CF (I assume you all are) do not put  loyalty and allegiance to your beautiful country and its great armed forces above everything else.  But I guess we need a bauble recognizing someones anniversary to  give us pride. 

Have I confused the terms  "Queen" and "Crown"?  I don't know and I don't care.  I'm not a constitutional expert.  All I know is that this overwhelming deference to and fawning over an individual or symbol (King, Queen or Crown or constitutional monarchy) just makes me want to scream.  All I know is I love my country and question why the ideals of Canada and what it represents (and medals) can't be given  precedence. 

Did I cringe and bite my tongue when I swore the oath many years ago?   Yes,  I admit it.  I have done things I am not proud of.  All I wanted to be then was a member of the best armed forces in the world - The Cdn Forces.  I held my tongue during that time and tried to do the best job I could to represent my country.  I didn't bring up the subject because the job was more important; and well, the NDA in effect says that it is a crime to make disloyal statements about the Crown or Queen.  You don't know who you can trust. 

No, the Queen is not a dictator.....not in that sense.  Grow up.

Are you suggesting that I should be ashamed of my paycheque/pension or collected them under false pretenses?  Well, well, well. I guess we really do live in a constitutional monarchy and not a democracy after all.  In a democracy you have freedom of religion, political viewpoints, race, gender.  In a democracy, employers cannot discriminate based upon those things.  My friend, are you saying that because I believe in the ideals of Canada that I do not deserve to be compensated for serving my country instead of the Crown?  I'm loyal to my country and place it above any other vague symbol.  By your admission, it appears that you do not share that same loyalty to your country.  I feel sorry for you.  Sir Walter Scott was not a republican, as far as I know but he was Scottish which says a lot and I know how I would like to interpret: "Breaths there  a man with soul so dead who never to himself hath said, This is my own, my native land....."

[Strike]

...Well, well, well. I guess we really do live in a constitutional monarchy and not a democracy after all...

Your whole last paragraph makes no sense after this sentence because, guess what, we DO live in a constitutional monarchy, not a pure democracy.  If you thought otherwise then you weren't paying attention during history class.

[Crantor]

Don't bother feeling sorry for me.  I actually know what a constitutional monarchy is all about and what our oath actually means, both the words as well as the symbolism of the crown and what it it means.  Heck just google Oath of Allegiance Canada and you might learn something about how it all works.  And you seem so hung up on the actual words "crytal clear" and all and felt the need to tell me to grow up about you saying the queen being a dictator for the last 60 years.  Your words seemed pretty clear to me.  And I'm not sure what democracy and or constitutional monarchy has to do with your hypocrisy.  You claim to have served Canada and it's values.  Just go look at what the Crown actually represents and get back to us...

[Scott]

 

[dowadiddy]

I wonder if he's the "officer" that refused to stand or acknowledge the Loyal Toasts at the mess dinners at RMC...I put the quotes around officer because someone that would blatantly disregard their commissioning oath like that should actually be required to relinquish said commission.  But that's just the ex-WO in me talking I guess.

MM

No I'm not that guy and I didn't make any waves, really, while I was serving.
  They issued me a commissioning scroll.  I didn't ask for it.  I didn't pay attention to the very kind salutation from the Queen but I did pay attention to what the two Canadians, who signatures appear (Gov Gen and Min of Def) had to say in the body of the  document.  I took those words seriously.  Are you saying that I didn't?  Is that what you are saying? Are you really, really  saying that because I tried to live up to the expectations of those two offices and not the "Crown" that I should have retired or something?  Do you really wish to say that to me?  Are you saying that I respected orders given to me by Canadian military superiors all the way to the Prime Minister, I suppose and to the Gov Gen (who is C in C of the CF) that I am somehow a worthless piece of dirt in your eyes.  You shouldn't be so cavalier in your comments.  I love my country and what it stands for.  I was proud to represent my country and its armed forces around the world.  I did the best job I could and it wasn't easy.  How dare you question my service.  you know nothing about me.   How dare you belittle the things I hold dear.   I love and cherish my country and my family and the Cdn Forces. 

[recceguy]

The words of the oath are crystal clear (.....true allegiance to Queen Elizabeth, the Second, Queen of Canada.....) Maybe you are suggesting that the oath means duty, honour, integrity, courage. loyalty all to the CF and to the ideals of Canada.  Well, that is not what the WORDS, the written words, say.  I paraphrase the oath to mean unswerving loyalty to a named and well known famous person who lives in the UK and who has some vague connection to Canada.

Do I notice a trend in response to my post?  Yes, sadly I have.  I cannot understand why Canadians, closely associated with the CF (I assume you all are) do not put  loyalty and allegiance to your beautiful country and its great armed forces above everything else.  But I guess we need a bauble recognizing someones anniversary to  give us pride. 

Have I confused the terms  "Queen" and "Crown"?  I don't know and I don't care.  I'm not a constitutional expert.  All I know is that this overwhelming deference to and fawning over an individual or symbol (King, Queen or Crown or constitutional monarchy) just makes me want to scream.  All I know is I love my country and question why the ideals of Canada and what it represents (and medals) can't be given  precedence. 

Did I cringe and bite my tongue when I swore the oath many years ago?   Yes,  I admit it.  I have done things I am not proud of.  All I wanted to be then was a member of the best armed forces in the world - The Cdn Forces.  I held my tongue during that time and tried to do the best job I could to represent my country.  I didn't bring up the subject because the job was more important; and well, the NDA in effect says that it is a crime to make disloyal statements about the Crown or Queen.  You don't know who you can trust. 

No, the Queen is not a dictator.....not in that sense.  Grow up.

Are you suggesting that I should be ashamed of my paycheque/pension or collected them under false pretenses?  Well, well, well. I guess we really do live in a constitutional monarchy and not a democracy after all.  In a democracy you have freedom of religion, political viewpoints, race, gender.  In a democracy, employers cannot discriminate based upon those things.  My friend, are you saying that because I believe in the ideals of Canada that I do not deserve to be compensated for serving my country instead of the Crown?  I'm loyal to my country and place it above any other vague symbol.  By your admission, it appears that you do not share that same loyalty to your country.  I feel sorry for you.  Sir Walter Scott was not a republican, as far as I know but he was Scottish which says a lot and I know how I would like to interpret: "Breaths there  a man with soul so dead who never to himself hath said, This is my own, my native land....."

[dowadiddy]

Your whole last paragraph makes no sense after this sentence because, guess what, we DO live in a constitutional monarchy, not a pure democracy.  If you thought otherwise then you weren't paying attention during history class.

Yes.  You are correct. that is what I said.  What I meant to suggest was that even though we live in Constitutional Monarchy, I thought we lived in a country with democratic ideals.  I guess we don't.

This is interesting.  Some of you may vote NDP or live in Toronto.  You may practice a lifestyle with which I am not comfortable.  On a more serious note, some of you may be atheists.  Even more seriously, some of you may have showed a lack of integrity at work or at home; or you may have committed a minor crime.  And yet I do not begrudge you (within reason)  your pay or your commissioning scrolls.   Because I tried to do the best job I could while in uniform and have profesed my true allegiance and loyalty to Canada and not anything which includes words/symbols like  King, Queen, crown, constitutional monarchy, you are seriously suggesting that I be denied the same benefits and respect that you feel you deserve.

[milnews.ca]

I wonder if he's the "officer" that refused to stand or acknowledge the Loyal Toasts at the mess dinners at RMC...I put the quotes around officer because someone that would blatantly disregard their commissioning oath like that should actually be required to relinquish said commission.  But that's just the ex-WO in me talking I guess.

MM

This one?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/story/2008/01/22/ot-queen-080122.html

[medicineman]

That be him...he also changed his name to the Irish version that nobody could pronounce - and took great offence when you couldn't.  Went on about how I should, since there is a pile of Scots and Irish in me - I also pointed out that my mummy was English and the Scots and Irish were remote (> 2nd generation).  Incidentally, he's second generation Canadian IIRC though I could be wrong.  I get the impression his regiment hid him there for a reason.

MM

[Jim Seggie]

That be him...he also changed his name to the Irish version that nobody could pronounce - and took great offence when you couldn't.  Went on about how I should, since there is a pile of Scots and Irish in me - I also pointed out that my mummy was English and the Scots and Irish were remote (> 2nd generation).  Incidentally, he's second generation Canadian IIRC though I could be wrong.  I get the impression his regiment hid him there for a reason.

MM

My mother is from Scotland (parents Scots/Irish) and grandparents from Dad's side - Scottish grandpa and English Grandmum - I'm Canadian and nothing else.

This particular person, if he feels that strongly, should renounce his Canadian citizenship and re-locate to....oh......hmmmm......Brazil. Or Peru.

[Bruce Monkhouse]

What was the subject of this thread again?

[Dimsum]

That be him...he also changed his name to the Irish version that nobody could pronounce - and took great offence when you couldn't.  Went on about how I should, since there is a pile of Scots and Irish in me - I also pointed out that my mummy was English and the Scots and Irish were remote (> 2nd generation).  Incidentally, he's second generation Canadian IIRC though I could be wrong.  I get the impression his regiment hid him there for a reason.

MM

Hey...now that I've seen the name, he was in the room next to me for a while back in Second Language training and used my computer to send something online.  I wonder what that is now...   

[Michael O'Leary]

Hey...now that I've seen the name, he was in the room next to me for a while back in Second Language training and used my computer to send something online.  I wonder what that is now...   

I bet CSIS knows.      

[medicineman]

I wonder how much Sinn Fein got...

MM